I know this isn't quite the right forum for my question but I thought that active sailors like you would have the best advice. I have been intersted in sailing for many years and finally decided to take the dive. As I was researching the different sailing schools I stumbled upon SailTime. Are any of you familiar with this program? It looks like a pretty good deal for someone who is just starting. The only drawback is that it is a two year commitment. I appreciate any and all feedback whether negative or positive. Thanks in advance for any feedback you give.
- Status
Other options
I am not familar with SailTime, but 2 years, wow. There are other ways to learn without a two year comitment. When the Admiral was learning to sail we did a week offshore school with Chapmans Maritime ( the people that wrote the book). It was a great 7 day vacation to the Bahamas, with 2 ASA course certifactions, practical experince, and great overall sailing exposure. Then look around to the local sailing clubs. Many have nightly and weekend racing and will take crew with all levels. Racing is a great way to really learn about sailing and how to sail(better with some else's boat). Club racing will also give you exposure to many differnt types of boats as well as many different type of sailors. No 2 year commitment, great learning experinces, cedrtifactions, and new friends. To me that is a better more flexible deal!
I am not familar with SailTime, but 2 years, wow. There are other ways to learn without a two year comitment. When the Admiral was learning to sail we did a week offshore school with Chapmans Maritime ( the people that wrote the book). It was a great 7 day vacation to the Bahamas, with 2 ASA course certifactions, practical experince, and great overall sailing exposure. Then look around to the local sailing clubs. Many have nightly and weekend racing and will take crew with all levels. Racing is a great way to really learn about sailing and how to sail(better with some else's boat). Club racing will also give you exposure to many differnt types of boats as well as many different type of sailors. No 2 year commitment, great learning experinces, cedrtifactions, and new friends. To me that is a better more flexible deal!
Sorry
Sorry for the confusion Bill. SailTime is actually a program where for a monthly fee (395) you get to sail a Hunter 33 7-8 times a month. This includes everything from gas to mooring fees. They have locations all over the country that you can use for "free" if the members on the boat aren't using it. I am going to learn through an independent school that is fairly priced.
Sorry for the confusion Bill. SailTime is actually a program where for a monthly fee (395) you get to sail a Hunter 33 7-8 times a month. This includes everything from gas to mooring fees. They have locations all over the country that you can use for "free" if the members on the boat aren't using it. I am going to learn through an independent school that is fairly priced.
Another idea
Call the education desk at the Cleveland Plain Dealer and ask the reporter for names of adult skills classes. I teach sailing in one, and I'm sure there are many out there. Much less expensive, but still hands-on in the boat.
Call the education desk at the Cleveland Plain Dealer and ask the reporter for names of adult skills classes. I teach sailing in one, and I'm sure there are many out there. Much less expensive, but still hands-on in the boat.
The Sailtime model
The Sailtime model has a lot of advantages if you are wanting to get some exposure to boat ownership. Although, they do the maintenance etc. But if you are new to sailing it might be a good way to develop big boat skills and also get the family involved. My family can only do a once a year charter at this point I'd say its better than dropping $80K on a new boat and discovering the rest of the family is allergic to fresh air and fiberglass. However, I wouldn't (won't) do it unless it is EASY (nearby location) to get to the boat. It has no value, only cost, if you don't use it. Mark
The Sailtime model has a lot of advantages if you are wanting to get some exposure to boat ownership. Although, they do the maintenance etc. But if you are new to sailing it might be a good way to develop big boat skills and also get the family involved. My family can only do a once a year charter at this point I'd say its better than dropping $80K on a new boat and discovering the rest of the family is allergic to fresh air and fiberglass. However, I wouldn't (won't) do it unless it is EASY (nearby location) to get to the boat. It has no value, only cost, if you don't use it. Mark
Reasonable way to go
For just under $10,000 you get reasonable access to a nice boat for 2 years? I assume its a new boat, you don't have to worry about maintenance, insurance and slip fees, which could easily cost that much over a 2 year period if you had your own boat in Cleveland. Sounds like a pretty good deal unless you are afraid that you might get into it and not enjoy it at all. The other suggestions are good, too, but I don't think you get very much out of crewing on other people's boats if you want to to be more independant. If you are married or have a girlfriend, the commitment to crewing on somebody's boat probably won't go over very well either (especially if you are married and have kids). I think the key to Sailtime is being able to take advantage of all the time that is allotted to you. It sounds pretty good to me ... worth looking into the details.
For just under $10,000 you get reasonable access to a nice boat for 2 years? I assume its a new boat, you don't have to worry about maintenance, insurance and slip fees, which could easily cost that much over a 2 year period if you had your own boat in Cleveland. Sounds like a pretty good deal unless you are afraid that you might get into it and not enjoy it at all. The other suggestions are good, too, but I don't think you get very much out of crewing on other people's boats if you want to to be more independant. If you are married or have a girlfriend, the commitment to crewing on somebody's boat probably won't go over very well either (especially if you are married and have kids). I think the key to Sailtime is being able to take advantage of all the time that is allotted to you. It sounds pretty good to me ... worth looking into the details.
Sailtime!
Chris, My primary concern is the two year committment. It sounds like sort of President's Health on the water. From experience, I will tell you that if you really enjoy sailing, you will rapidly wish you had spent the money on a downpayment for your own boat. If it turns out that it is NOT your thing or some event in your life changes its coarse, you will play hell getting your money back. Personally, I would opt for a full saturation sailing school or coarse, then crew as much as you can. Then you will know if sailing is your thing and you will have a much better idea of what you want should decide to buy. Jon McClain
Chris, My primary concern is the two year committment. It sounds like sort of President's Health on the water. From experience, I will tell you that if you really enjoy sailing, you will rapidly wish you had spent the money on a downpayment for your own boat. If it turns out that it is NOT your thing or some event in your life changes its coarse, you will play hell getting your money back. Personally, I would opt for a full saturation sailing school or coarse, then crew as much as you can. Then you will know if sailing is your thing and you will have a much better idea of what you want should decide to buy. Jon McClain
How many other owners (usesr)...
that will be utilizing your boat is another consideration. Also, you may be scheduled for Saturday morning, but actually need the boat on Saturday afternoon, and, since the afternoon time slots don't really have to be back until the next morning, guess which time slots will have the most competition. Finally, check out the solvency of your particular boat. Even though this is a sail it and forget it proposition, if there are only a few "time sharers" ,the owner won't be able to afford all the extras that are promised. I believe each boat is individually owned and then leased back to the sail time venture. It might be worth your while to look at buying into one of these boats, as the owner gets a (free ?) time share portion I believe. If you do not like sailing, and the boat is profitable, at least you are not in a $ losing proposition. Good luck....... Jeff
that will be utilizing your boat is another consideration. Also, you may be scheduled for Saturday morning, but actually need the boat on Saturday afternoon, and, since the afternoon time slots don't really have to be back until the next morning, guess which time slots will have the most competition. Finally, check out the solvency of your particular boat. Even though this is a sail it and forget it proposition, if there are only a few "time sharers" ,the owner won't be able to afford all the extras that are promised. I believe each boat is individually owned and then leased back to the sail time venture. It might be worth your while to look at buying into one of these boats, as the owner gets a (free ?) time share portion I believe. If you do not like sailing, and the boat is profitable, at least you are not in a $ losing proposition. Good luck....... Jeff
Time of use
My understanding is that they limit the number of "owners" to 8 per boat. Then each "owner" is guaranteed "X" amount of use per month. My questions would be oriented around 1) how is the initial schedule set up? 2) flexibility in change of schedules or swaping of times 3) use of boat at times when no one has signed up... 3pm to 6pm on a Wed. afternoon...say,or...10am to 3pm on a Tuesday morning. The program has it's advantages, but little of the feel and pride of ownership, especially as someone else sails off on that glorious afternoon sail when you have guests in town and wanted to go out! This is NOT a "learn to sail" opportunity either, you need to have a skill level to sign on. I'd take some weeklong ASA classes as a family and see if everyone is committed before even dreaming of going into one of these deals.
My understanding is that they limit the number of "owners" to 8 per boat. Then each "owner" is guaranteed "X" amount of use per month. My questions would be oriented around 1) how is the initial schedule set up? 2) flexibility in change of schedules or swaping of times 3) use of boat at times when no one has signed up... 3pm to 6pm on a Wed. afternoon...say,or...10am to 3pm on a Tuesday morning. The program has it's advantages, but little of the feel and pride of ownership, especially as someone else sails off on that glorious afternoon sail when you have guests in town and wanted to go out! This is NOT a "learn to sail" opportunity either, you need to have a skill level to sign on. I'd take some weeklong ASA classes as a family and see if everyone is committed before even dreaming of going into one of these deals.
Other Options
Chris, There are less expensive options than Sailtime. I have been a member of a sailing club in Baltimore for the past 4 years. The club has 4 large cruising boats (Hunter 35.5, Catalina 34, Beneteau 331 and Hunter 310), four small overnight boats (22 and 23 ft Cals and Catalinas), and 9 training boats (34 ft open cockpit Sonars) used mostly for the Sailing School. We have unlimited use of any of the boats from April through October. My wife and I sail 30 to 35 days per year, ussually one week long cruise and 3 or 4 one or two nighters, and a lot of day sails. Cost is $260/mo. I can't justify buying a boat for that price.
Chris, There are less expensive options than Sailtime. I have been a member of a sailing club in Baltimore for the past 4 years. The club has 4 large cruising boats (Hunter 35.5, Catalina 34, Beneteau 331 and Hunter 310), four small overnight boats (22 and 23 ft Cals and Catalinas), and 9 training boats (34 ft open cockpit Sonars) used mostly for the Sailing School. We have unlimited use of any of the boats from April through October. My wife and I sail 30 to 35 days per year, ussually one week long cruise and 3 or 4 one or two nighters, and a lot of day sails. Cost is $260/mo. I can't justify buying a boat for that price.
Learning to sail
If just want to learn to sail, I don't think charter clubs are the way to go. There are many colleges and community groups that offer sailing programs from beginner on up. The best place to learn is on a small boat with no motor that you can sail by yourself. Take the advice of the others and get some crewing experience, but what you really need is a year or so of single-handed dingy sailing that'll give you the confidence to sail anything.
If just want to learn to sail, I don't think charter clubs are the way to go. There are many colleges and community groups that offer sailing programs from beginner on up. The best place to learn is on a small boat with no motor that you can sail by yourself. Take the advice of the others and get some crewing experience, but what you really need is a year or so of single-handed dingy sailing that'll give you the confidence to sail anything.
Sailing Club Experience
I'd have to agree with Rockyglen. There are other "sailing club" arrangements around that offer some significant advantages. As Rocky listed, the club they participated in had a nice variety of boats. What that does for the person who is "sailing curious" is provide them with a strong baseline for 1) deciding if sailing is something they feel enough passion for to spend significantly more than the club membership dues for, and 2) a great way to explore what the different brands and sizes of boats have to offer. When/if Rocky decided they had enough passion to commit the funds, they would also have a great idea of what they wanted, needed, liked and disliked about a variety of different boats so that when buying a boat of their own, they were coming from a position of knowledge and experience rather than just gut feel. Another thing that the club experience brought me was a good set of habits relative to checking out the boat each time I went out. Because each boat was different, and each boat was sailed by others, it wasn't always set up the same or put away the same. Thus I had to have good routines when it came to leaving the dock. Check everything. If you don't absolutely gotta own, right this minute, the definite boat of your dreams (and you are open-eyed ready for everything that goes with boat ownership), I am strongly in favor of one of the "sailing club"-type opportunities. Tim Brogan April IV C350 #68 Seattle
I'd have to agree with Rockyglen. There are other "sailing club" arrangements around that offer some significant advantages. As Rocky listed, the club they participated in had a nice variety of boats. What that does for the person who is "sailing curious" is provide them with a strong baseline for 1) deciding if sailing is something they feel enough passion for to spend significantly more than the club membership dues for, and 2) a great way to explore what the different brands and sizes of boats have to offer. When/if Rocky decided they had enough passion to commit the funds, they would also have a great idea of what they wanted, needed, liked and disliked about a variety of different boats so that when buying a boat of their own, they were coming from a position of knowledge and experience rather than just gut feel. Another thing that the club experience brought me was a good set of habits relative to checking out the boat each time I went out. Because each boat was different, and each boat was sailed by others, it wasn't always set up the same or put away the same. Thus I had to have good routines when it came to leaving the dock. Check everything. If you don't absolutely gotta own, right this minute, the definite boat of your dreams (and you are open-eyed ready for everything that goes with boat ownership), I am strongly in favor of one of the "sailing club"-type opportunities. Tim Brogan April IV C350 #68 Seattle
Sailtime
I appreciate all of the feedback and keep it coming! Joe, I plan to educate myself thru the Harbor North program before joining Sailtime. Homeyman, there are 30 12 hour slots per month per 8 man boat. The owner/member doesn't get any more time. (According to the owner/member) Jeff, I think that answers your question as well and an overnight would constitue two slots. My situation is this... I live 2 hrs from the boat and would sail with my wife.(no kids) Our schedules are very flexible and sail time during the week will probably fit us well. I guess I am trying to justify spending the money for what it is. I can afford a boat now but am worried it might not be for us and am trying to avoid losing a boat load. To me, it seems like a decent deal to not have to worry about boat/maintance/damage when not in use. As far as crewing... I'm afraid our schedules wouldnt permit doing this together. Does that make more sense? As you can see I am new at all of this...
I appreciate all of the feedback and keep it coming! Joe, I plan to educate myself thru the Harbor North program before joining Sailtime. Homeyman, there are 30 12 hour slots per month per 8 man boat. The owner/member doesn't get any more time. (According to the owner/member) Jeff, I think that answers your question as well and an overnight would constitue two slots. My situation is this... I live 2 hrs from the boat and would sail with my wife.(no kids) Our schedules are very flexible and sail time during the week will probably fit us well. I guess I am trying to justify spending the money for what it is. I can afford a boat now but am worried it might not be for us and am trying to avoid losing a boat load. To me, it seems like a decent deal to not have to worry about boat/maintance/damage when not in use. As far as crewing... I'm afraid our schedules wouldnt permit doing this together. Does that make more sense? As you can see I am new at all of this...
Right Track
Chris, I think you are on the right track to finding out just how much you like sailing. Sailing instruction and practice with others will build your sailing skills and confidence. Access to a larger cruising boat will let you get the feel of what boat ownership would be like, before you make the financial commitment. But be prepared, sailing is addictive. I am hopelessly hooked. My wife and I have demanding jobs that don't leave enough time right now to own and maintain our own boat. But that day is coming for us. In the meantime we enjoy sailing the club boats and have a 10-day charter booked for this summer in the Greek Islands with my oldest son and daughter-in-law. We are going to enjoy other peoples boats until its time to buy our own. Good Luck, Bob Rectanus "Rockyglen"
Chris, I think you are on the right track to finding out just how much you like sailing. Sailing instruction and practice with others will build your sailing skills and confidence. Access to a larger cruising boat will let you get the feel of what boat ownership would be like, before you make the financial commitment. But be prepared, sailing is addictive. I am hopelessly hooked. My wife and I have demanding jobs that don't leave enough time right now to own and maintain our own boat. But that day is coming for us. In the meantime we enjoy sailing the club boats and have a 10-day charter booked for this summer in the Greek Islands with my oldest son and daughter-in-law. We are going to enjoy other peoples boats until its time to buy our own. Good Luck, Bob Rectanus "Rockyglen"
What does the wife say?
If the "Admiral" isn't into it, it ain't gonna happen! 2 hours away would worry me, I've never been more than 30-45 minutes away from my boat and the "Admiral" would race me to get there. No kids is a plus to start out. From what you describe, as long as you AND your wife take some classes together and still want to do it, and you feel like your situation is stable enough to support 2 year commitment, I'd go for it.
If the "Admiral" isn't into it, it ain't gonna happen! 2 hours away would worry me, I've never been more than 30-45 minutes away from my boat and the "Admiral" would race me to get there. No kids is a plus to start out. From what you describe, as long as you AND your wife take some classes together and still want to do it, and you feel like your situation is stable enough to support 2 year commitment, I'd go for it.
Sailtiime
I'm not sure where the idea of a two year commitment to Sailtime is coming from. I personally discussed this program at length with the Sailtime folks at the St. Pete show. They told me that the commitment was 90 days, not two years. If this has changed, I'm not aware of it. $395/month times 24= $9480. I can see why some would hesitate to promise to pay that much for something you found just wasn't working for you. Also, there is a 14 day trial period when you sign up. There is an up-front $2500 charge, $1500 of which is a refundable damage deposit. Boater's Exchange in Rockledge, Florida is going to be our local Sailtime base. They have their Hunters ordered, and plan their launch for the Miami show. The only real drawbacks I can see in this plan is that you don't have unlimited "spur of the moment" access to the boat, and you really can't do a lot of extended cruising with it, due to time constraints. Bob
I'm not sure where the idea of a two year commitment to Sailtime is coming from. I personally discussed this program at length with the Sailtime folks at the St. Pete show. They told me that the commitment was 90 days, not two years. If this has changed, I'm not aware of it. $395/month times 24= $9480. I can see why some would hesitate to promise to pay that much for something you found just wasn't working for you. Also, there is a 14 day trial period when you sign up. There is an up-front $2500 charge, $1500 of which is a refundable damage deposit. Boater's Exchange in Rockledge, Florida is going to be our local Sailtime base. They have their Hunters ordered, and plan their launch for the Miami show. The only real drawbacks I can see in this plan is that you don't have unlimited "spur of the moment" access to the boat, and you really can't do a lot of extended cruising with it, due to time constraints. Bob
- Status