I need to replace my headsail and I have been looking for an affordable replacement. I was just wondering if anyone has purchased sails from cruisingdirect.com. I am jusxt wondering about the quality. Thanks, Jeremy
Sails from cruisingdirect.com?
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North Sails
North Sails is not a fly by night outfit. I would trust that the sails offered by Cruising Direct are very high quality. In the neighborhood in which they are located, they would not be in business if they didn't produce a good product. Jim
North Sails is not a fly by night outfit. I would trust that the sails offered by Cruising Direct are very high quality. In the neighborhood in which they are located, they would not be in business if they didn't produce a good product. Jim
Thanks....
After digging around their site I realized it was North Sails. I was just wondering because of the price difference between cruisingdirect.com and my local loft. Of course they aren't the same sail maker, but the price was almost 40% cheaper than what the loft quoted me.
After digging around their site I realized it was North Sails. I was just wondering because of the price difference between cruisingdirect.com and my local loft. Of course they aren't the same sail maker, but the price was almost 40% cheaper than what the loft quoted me.
Sails
When I was looking for a new main for my H28.5,I contacted North Sails (among other lofts). I also contacted Cruising Direct. I believe North set up CD as a means of competing with the other offshore sailmakers. I asked my local North loft to compare and contrast their product with that of CD. They were happy to do so. I suggest you do the same thing. While the price difference is substantial, the North loft provided a lot of personal service and advice(all of which costs money),like traveling to my boat (100 miles) to take measurements to ensure the new main would fit over my deployed bimini. In the end, they had to take a few inches off the leech, a factor I might have missed if I were responsible for taking the measurements myself. I think the quality of the products is going to be pretty similar, the difference is in how much personal service do you need -- or not.
When I was looking for a new main for my H28.5,I contacted North Sails (among other lofts). I also contacted Cruising Direct. I believe North set up CD as a means of competing with the other offshore sailmakers. I asked my local North loft to compare and contrast their product with that of CD. They were happy to do so. I suggest you do the same thing. While the price difference is substantial, the North loft provided a lot of personal service and advice(all of which costs money),like traveling to my boat (100 miles) to take measurements to ensure the new main would fit over my deployed bimini. In the end, they had to take a few inches off the leech, a factor I might have missed if I were responsible for taking the measurements myself. I think the quality of the products is going to be pretty similar, the difference is in how much personal service do you need -- or not.
Why not measure the old sail?
I often see posts similar to Warren's where part of the service provided by premium priced lofts is visiting the boat. But if its just to measure the old sails why wouldn't you just take them in to the loft? As long as the sailmaker works within the maximum dimensions of the old sail, and if you were happy with it, why the need for a lot of expensive service? Kevin
I often see posts similar to Warren's where part of the service provided by premium priced lofts is visiting the boat. But if its just to measure the old sails why wouldn't you just take them in to the loft? As long as the sailmaker works within the maximum dimensions of the old sail, and if you were happy with it, why the need for a lot of expensive service? Kevin
Mainsail Measurements
Kevin, You might be missing some points of a sailmaker visiting a boat to take measurements. One issue Warren mentioned is having the main cut high enough to be clear of an after market bimini. A second is the varied set ups by owners and previous owners such as different degreees of mast bend which can lead to a sail being cut too full or too flat for the curve of the mast. Additionally, options for one or two reefs, for lazy jacks, a larger roach not hitting the backstay, full or partial length battens, and the effect of a backstay adjuster all need some measurements for which a typical owner may not have enough experience. If you want the best fit for a sail you are likely to have for many many years, and can rely upon in all kinds of conditions, you owe it to yourself to have an expert measure the rig and discuss the various options with you. Headsails might possibly be easier to buy (new or used) from the measurements of an existing sail IF you are satisfied that it is already the correct and best fit.
Kevin, You might be missing some points of a sailmaker visiting a boat to take measurements. One issue Warren mentioned is having the main cut high enough to be clear of an after market bimini. A second is the varied set ups by owners and previous owners such as different degreees of mast bend which can lead to a sail being cut too full or too flat for the curve of the mast. Additionally, options for one or two reefs, for lazy jacks, a larger roach not hitting the backstay, full or partial length battens, and the effect of a backstay adjuster all need some measurements for which a typical owner may not have enough experience. If you want the best fit for a sail you are likely to have for many many years, and can rely upon in all kinds of conditions, you owe it to yourself to have an expert measure the rig and discuss the various options with you. Headsails might possibly be easier to buy (new or used) from the measurements of an existing sail IF you are satisfied that it is already the correct and best fit.
I appreciate the advice....
I appreciate the advice, but the difference between a $700 sail and a $1200 sail means something else goes undone. I plan on measuring the sail I have several times to double and triple check myself. The $1200 qoute was just to make a copy of the sail I have no measuring of my rig. As much as I would love to pay for the extra services my wife vetoed the $1200 sail, but is fine with spending $700. I only plan to own the boat for 2-3 years. I could see an expensive sail as an investment if I planned on owning the boat for 8-10 years, but it's not going to get me any more $$ when I sell the boat in a few years. The Jib we have worked great, but it was an old jib that was converted to work with a furling system so it had no UV protection. Our rig is simple the only addition being the furler. Anyway again I appreciate the advice. -- Jeremy
I appreciate the advice, but the difference between a $700 sail and a $1200 sail means something else goes undone. I plan on measuring the sail I have several times to double and triple check myself. The $1200 qoute was just to make a copy of the sail I have no measuring of my rig. As much as I would love to pay for the extra services my wife vetoed the $1200 sail, but is fine with spending $700. I only plan to own the boat for 2-3 years. I could see an expensive sail as an investment if I planned on owning the boat for 8-10 years, but it's not going to get me any more $$ when I sell the boat in a few years. The Jib we have worked great, but it was an old jib that was converted to work with a furling system so it had no UV protection. Our rig is simple the only addition being the furler. Anyway again I appreciate the advice. -- Jeremy
I can compare them head to head...
Jeremy, you can be assured the two sails - North's USA loft product vs. CD product - are not the same. The latter is made with North's proprietary Nordac cloth, which I like very much, and is built to the same computer model. There should be no difference in how the two sails make your boat perform, assuming similar dimensions. The key criterion, however, is your plan not to own your boat for more than 2-3 years; given that, defnitely go with CD. Prior to a Caribbean Circle, I purchased a North 110% headsail (from the San Diego loft). It is possible to buy North at a discount (I coupled the out-of-state order to avoid 7% sales tax with North's once-a-year 25% discount, reducing the price by about 1/3...tho' I don't think that will reverse your wife's veto). The sail was built in North Carolina. Prior to an Atlantic Crossing and solely to fit new sails into a tight budget, I purchased a main, mizzen and 135% from CD. These sails were all built in the Far East. When I compare the two headsails, there's no doubt in my mind the North product will last far longer: far more generous webbing and beefier hardware, and some trimming tricks built in, too. OTOH the CD headsail has the same poly luff to aid in reefing and the same cloth, and the price for this larger sail was about 1/2 the North sail (even tho' this was 3-4 years later). The hardware on the main was mickey mouse and I've replaced most of it, but that should concern you. BTW I also found CD to be quite resistent to fixing a sewn-in fault in the main; basically, they simply outwaited me and I had to depart before having it addressed at my local North loft, something they claim is a benefit of their product. I don't think you get more than you pay for with CD sails, but they do represent good value IMO. If you are leaning in CD's direction, I'd solicit some quotes and chat a bit with a few of the other USA-based offshore sail companies (e.g. Rollie Tasker and Lee); that would be comparing Apples with Apples. Jack
Jeremy, you can be assured the two sails - North's USA loft product vs. CD product - are not the same. The latter is made with North's proprietary Nordac cloth, which I like very much, and is built to the same computer model. There should be no difference in how the two sails make your boat perform, assuming similar dimensions. The key criterion, however, is your plan not to own your boat for more than 2-3 years; given that, defnitely go with CD. Prior to a Caribbean Circle, I purchased a North 110% headsail (from the San Diego loft). It is possible to buy North at a discount (I coupled the out-of-state order to avoid 7% sales tax with North's once-a-year 25% discount, reducing the price by about 1/3...tho' I don't think that will reverse your wife's veto). The sail was built in North Carolina. Prior to an Atlantic Crossing and solely to fit new sails into a tight budget, I purchased a main, mizzen and 135% from CD. These sails were all built in the Far East. When I compare the two headsails, there's no doubt in my mind the North product will last far longer: far more generous webbing and beefier hardware, and some trimming tricks built in, too. OTOH the CD headsail has the same poly luff to aid in reefing and the same cloth, and the price for this larger sail was about 1/2 the North sail (even tho' this was 3-4 years later). The hardware on the main was mickey mouse and I've replaced most of it, but that should concern you. BTW I also found CD to be quite resistent to fixing a sewn-in fault in the main; basically, they simply outwaited me and I had to depart before having it addressed at my local North loft, something they claim is a benefit of their product. I don't think you get more than you pay for with CD sails, but they do represent good value IMO. If you are leaning in CD's direction, I'd solicit some quotes and chat a bit with a few of the other USA-based offshore sail companies (e.g. Rollie Tasker and Lee); that would be comparing Apples with Apples. Jack
Scott Sails?
Jack thanks! I also got a good qoute with Scott Sails although I don't know what their reputation is. They were slightly higher than CD, but since they are out of state the savingins on sales tax makes them slightly cheaper. I am also getting some responses on the used front, but I'd rather have something made that replaces my old sail rather than have issues with something that should work. -- Jeremy
Jack thanks! I also got a good qoute with Scott Sails although I don't know what their reputation is. They were slightly higher than CD, but since they are out of state the savingins on sales tax makes them slightly cheaper. I am also getting some responses on the used front, but I'd rather have something made that replaces my old sail rather than have issues with something that should work. -- Jeremy
In my humble opinion
I would not be investing a huge amount of money in a new main if you are only going to keep the boat a few more years. I think Jack's advice is valuable but I think that the sail investment must be weighed against usage. Some questions for you...What is the age of the boat? What are your motivations for new sails? What is the intended use of the new boat? Did you do the little quiz on CD site? Where did you score? We sail a 34 ft boat out of Victoria BC Canada. We sail all year round (less in the winter) We are planning on keeping the boat for at least 5 more years. Our boat was built in 1978. We are sailing on the original sails. We don't point as high, and we have to reef sooner but we still get where we are going. If you sail all the time, in all kinds of weather and plan on keeping the boat for 10+ years then perhaps a bigger investment may be warranted (not necessary). If on the other hand you are fair weather sailors on the weekends then a suit of CD sails may be just the ticket. I think that "need" and "want" have to be differentiated. Question for Jack... At the end of your Caribeen Circle, how was the shape of the CD sails?
I would not be investing a huge amount of money in a new main if you are only going to keep the boat a few more years. I think Jack's advice is valuable but I think that the sail investment must be weighed against usage. Some questions for you...What is the age of the boat? What are your motivations for new sails? What is the intended use of the new boat? Did you do the little quiz on CD site? Where did you score? We sail a 34 ft boat out of Victoria BC Canada. We sail all year round (less in the winter) We are planning on keeping the boat for at least 5 more years. Our boat was built in 1978. We are sailing on the original sails. We don't point as high, and we have to reef sooner but we still get where we are going. If you sail all the time, in all kinds of weather and plan on keeping the boat for 10+ years then perhaps a bigger investment may be warranted (not necessary). If on the other hand you are fair weather sailors on the weekends then a suit of CD sails may be just the ticket. I think that "need" and "want" have to be differentiated. Question for Jack... At the end of your Caribeen Circle, how was the shape of the CD sails?
Fair weather sailors...
We basically sail in only the best conditions mainly on weekends but if the weather is good a couple of after work cruises in the summer aren't out of the question. The boat is a 1985 and I plan on owning it for 2-4 years tops. It's our starter boat. The reason I am buying a new headsail is the current one has fallen victim to UV rot. Which my surveyor must have missed. -- Jeremy
We basically sail in only the best conditions mainly on weekends but if the weather is good a couple of after work cruises in the summer aren't out of the question. The boat is a 1985 and I plan on owning it for 2-4 years tops. It's our starter boat. The reason I am buying a new headsail is the current one has fallen victim to UV rot. Which my surveyor must have missed. -- Jeremy
In fact a
a J22 sail has nearly the same dimensions. A Cat 25 sail is a bit short on the luff, 24'8" vs. your 26'5", so a difference of 1'8". But given the number of J22's in the world I'll bet you can find a decent used J22 main easily since there are so many that are raced and you know those racers... always looking for that edge! Just my opinions... CD provided Hunter 25.5 dimensions of P 26.47 (~26'5") E 10 I 31 J 10 This site has virtually the same dimensions listed.
a J22 sail has nearly the same dimensions. A Cat 25 sail is a bit short on the luff, 24'8" vs. your 26'5", so a difference of 1'8". But given the number of J22's in the world I'll bet you can find a decent used J22 main easily since there are so many that are raced and you know those racers... always looking for that edge! Just my opinions... CD provided Hunter 25.5 dimensions of P 26.47 (~26'5") E 10 I 31 J 10 This site has virtually the same dimensions listed.
For David W.
Prior to the Caribbean, we purchased a *North* genoa, not a CD product. That 110% is a great sail and continues to hold its shape insofar as I can tell. It's had some hard reefs in it. Re: the CD genoa, I used it to Bermuda (with some nasty squalls in which I had to reef it down) and we used it this year when crossing Biscay in some stinky conditions. The cloth has held up well but I would describe it as still relatively unused, so it's good condition isn't surprising. I gave it a good wash & close inspection when in Lisbon; so far, so good. Jack
Prior to the Caribbean, we purchased a *North* genoa, not a CD product. That 110% is a great sail and continues to hold its shape insofar as I can tell. It's had some hard reefs in it. Re: the CD genoa, I used it to Bermuda (with some nasty squalls in which I had to reef it down) and we used it this year when crossing Biscay in some stinky conditions. The cloth has held up well but I would describe it as still relatively unused, so it's good condition isn't surprising. I gave it a good wash & close inspection when in Lisbon; so far, so good. Jack
CD Sails ae GREAT
I'm in my 7th year now with my CD 150% Genoa. It's basically the only headsail I use anymore. We had it in some heavy weather, done some headsail-only sailing..it's worked great for us. If I needed a Main, I'd go to CD as well.
I'm in my 7th year now with my CD 150% Genoa. It's basically the only headsail I use anymore. We had it in some heavy weather, done some headsail-only sailing..it's worked great for us. If I needed a Main, I'd go to CD as well.
I got a quote from UK sails
Because I am in Canada I have to add the cost of exchange, duties and shipping to the CD sails. The quote from CD for my main was about $1800 USD. A 20% uplift on that for exchange makes it $2160 CDN. Not sure what the duty or shipping would be. The quote from my UK dealer was $2400 or $2500 CDN for the main (can't remember exactly...) If I recall correctly the total difference between CD and UK Sails for both main and genoa was about $500-$700 CDN. The one factor that can't be quantified is before and after sales service. CD = my measurements, challenges if alterations are needed etc. UK will come to my boat and is familiar with local conditions and is handy for alterations So I think in the end my choice will be local, either UK or another loft. Just wanted add this info in. Cheers David
Because I am in Canada I have to add the cost of exchange, duties and shipping to the CD sails. The quote from CD for my main was about $1800 USD. A 20% uplift on that for exchange makes it $2160 CDN. Not sure what the duty or shipping would be. The quote from my UK dealer was $2400 or $2500 CDN for the main (can't remember exactly...) If I recall correctly the total difference between CD and UK Sails for both main and genoa was about $500-$700 CDN. The one factor that can't be quantified is before and after sales service. CD = my measurements, challenges if alterations are needed etc. UK will come to my boat and is familiar with local conditions and is handy for alterations So I think in the end my choice will be local, either UK or another loft. Just wanted add this info in. Cheers David
Re; J22 Mainsail Comment
The J22 mainsail is cut for a bendy fractional rig. It has a lot of depth that is flattened manually by bending the mast when necessary. A Cat 25 has a straight mast so the J22 mainsail would have way too much depth to set properly with no ability to flatten it when needed. You might get by with a jib from a J22 if the clew isnt too low. (Frational rig has more headstay rake) Other considerations would be the cloth used would normally be different and sail slugs would normally not be there.
The J22 mainsail is cut for a bendy fractional rig. It has a lot of depth that is flattened manually by bending the mast when necessary. A Cat 25 has a straight mast so the J22 mainsail would have way too much depth to set properly with no ability to flatten it when needed. You might get by with a jib from a J22 if the clew isnt too low. (Frational rig has more headstay rake) Other considerations would be the cloth used would normally be different and sail slugs would normally not be there.
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