I'm about to replace the original UK sails on my 1986 Hunter 23. Does anyone have any experience to relay about choosing sails? My intentions are to go with a fully-battened main, but I'm unsure about choosing a genoa size. The original jib is a 110%. I've heard good and bad things about upsizing to a 135 or 150.
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Main Items
Comments for the main: 1. On a full batten main the battens should sit on the top of the boom for easy flaking. Might want to specify this. If you have a Dutchman system, which on a 23 you might not, ensure there is some chafe tape protection where the lines pass the battens. 2. Sail cover: Again, if the sail uses a dutchman system ensure that the new design can use your old sail cover. For this the slits have to line up in approximately the same place on the new sail as on the old sail. 3. Leach line adjustment: ensure that they give you something that is easy to adjust and easy to reach. You don't want a line through a couple gromets where one has to cinch tight and tie a knot. Try for a jamb cleat or some other setup that's easy to do on the fly. There should be leach line adjustments for each reef point. 4. Cunningham: get one. Jib: personally, for short handed sailing, I prefer the 110. It does fairly well in light breezes and when the wind picks up it's the right size. In really light breezes I use a 150 (this is on a H-35) which adds nearly 0.5 knot to boat speed but I have to do a sail change. In the light winds of summer I often put on the 150 and leave it on and switch to the 110 if the wind gets too strong. I like the 150 in light wind because the boat really moves. The rest of the year, however, I leave the 110 on the furler. Consider a 110 now and pick up an asymetrical later. This way you can leave the 110 up all the time. It's really easy to ruin a light sail as even a short time with excessive wind will cause permanent damage.
Comments for the main: 1. On a full batten main the battens should sit on the top of the boom for easy flaking. Might want to specify this. If you have a Dutchman system, which on a 23 you might not, ensure there is some chafe tape protection where the lines pass the battens. 2. Sail cover: Again, if the sail uses a dutchman system ensure that the new design can use your old sail cover. For this the slits have to line up in approximately the same place on the new sail as on the old sail. 3. Leach line adjustment: ensure that they give you something that is easy to adjust and easy to reach. You don't want a line through a couple gromets where one has to cinch tight and tie a knot. Try for a jamb cleat or some other setup that's easy to do on the fly. There should be leach line adjustments for each reef point. 4. Cunningham: get one. Jib: personally, for short handed sailing, I prefer the 110. It does fairly well in light breezes and when the wind picks up it's the right size. In really light breezes I use a 150 (this is on a H-35) which adds nearly 0.5 knot to boat speed but I have to do a sail change. In the light winds of summer I often put on the 150 and leave it on and switch to the 110 if the wind gets too strong. I like the 150 in light wind because the boat really moves. The rest of the year, however, I leave the 110 on the furler. Consider a 110 now and pick up an asymetrical later. This way you can leave the 110 up all the time. It's really easy to ruin a light sail as even a short time with excessive wind will cause permanent damage.
110 working jib vs 150 genoa
The 110 working jib is fine for just about anything except really light air, when a 150 would be ideal. However, a 150 can quickly become too much sail if the wind suddenly picks up. In my opinion, a 135 or 140 genoa would be a better bet. You'll give up a little bit to the 150 in very light air but won't have to change sails as soon as the wind comes back. I have a 110 and 140 on my 88 H23. Peter H23 "raven"
The 110 working jib is fine for just about anything except really light air, when a 150 would be ideal. However, a 150 can quickly become too much sail if the wind suddenly picks up. In my opinion, a 135 or 140 genoa would be a better bet. You'll give up a little bit to the 150 in very light air but won't have to change sails as soon as the wind comes back. I have a 110 and 140 on my 88 H23. Peter H23 "raven"
Asymetric Spinnaker
is a good alternative to a 150. It actually gives more power in reaching and running in light air, and can be rigged while flying the 110. I can sail 60 degrees off the wind with our asymetric in light air. And the 110 is a great sail when the wind picks up. David Lady Lillie
is a good alternative to a 150. It actually gives more power in reaching and running in light air, and can be rigged while flying the 110. I can sail 60 degrees off the wind with our asymetric in light air. And the 110 is a great sail when the wind picks up. David Lady Lillie
trade off
As you can see the headsail size is a trade off and strictly depends on your type of sailing and the conditions. I can tell you that I have an assymetrical spinnaker and I LOVE it for light air days. It's a very fun sail and GOOD Lookin. However I also race my H23 in a fleet and at the Nationals here at Indian Lake, Ohio. Here the 150s or 155s seem to be the norm for the more serious racers. In all but very heavy air they are ruling the race course and that seems to be the standard head sail for the H23 in light to moderate air.
As you can see the headsail size is a trade off and strictly depends on your type of sailing and the conditions. I can tell you that I have an assymetrical spinnaker and I LOVE it for light air days. It's a very fun sail and GOOD Lookin. However I also race my H23 in a fleet and at the Nationals here at Indian Lake, Ohio. Here the 150s or 155s seem to be the norm for the more serious racers. In all but very heavy air they are ruling the race course and that seems to be the standard head sail for the H23 in light to moderate air.
To Mike of Indian Lake
Mike - Thanks for the suggestion. We looked at an assymetrical spinnaker but never bought it. Let me ask you about the nationals. Did those boats have fully battened racing mains? Also, did the boats seem to point well with the 150 genoas. I've always had trouble getting my boat to point well with the 110, and I was afraid a larger headsail might make it worse. Thanks, Dan Bickford 1986 Hunter 23 "Charlie Weaver" West Point Lake, Georgia
Mike - Thanks for the suggestion. We looked at an assymetrical spinnaker but never bought it. Let me ask you about the nationals. Did those boats have fully battened racing mains? Also, did the boats seem to point well with the 150 genoas. I've always had trouble getting my boat to point well with the 110, and I was afraid a larger headsail might make it worse. Thanks, Dan Bickford 1986 Hunter 23 "Charlie Weaver" West Point Lake, Georgia
Advice against Spinnakers
I would recommend against putting a spinnaker on an H23, asymmetric or otherwise, because unlike a J-24, our fractional masts are stepped to the deck not the keel and not designed for that amount of wind stress.
I would recommend against putting a spinnaker on an H23, asymmetric or otherwise, because unlike a J-24, our fractional masts are stepped to the deck not the keel and not designed for that amount of wind stress.
Pointing Ability with Head Sail
Besides trim, the pointing ability with a particular head sail, when sailing by the luff or tell tails, a sail that has too much draft, such as from age, will not point as good as a new sail. So if you upgrade to a new sail, be it a 110 or a 150, you should be able to point really good according to the luff. Naturally the other trim items would have to be adjusted for optimum upwind VMG. With regard to the deck-stepped mast you could check with Hunter and see what they say. I can't speak for the 23 mast design capability but I wouldn't think that Hunter would produce this kind of a boat that would not be capable of carrying a chute. Just checked the photos for the 23 and found an orignial Hutner 23 brochure which shows the boat flying a chute - see link below (Ed.: looks good too!). PS: if the link doesn't work try this: http://www.sailboatowners.com/album/display.tpl?fno=0&id=Niffenegger73082564710&bts=T If you plan to race it will really help to have a range of sails available.
Besides trim, the pointing ability with a particular head sail, when sailing by the luff or tell tails, a sail that has too much draft, such as from age, will not point as good as a new sail. So if you upgrade to a new sail, be it a 110 or a 150, you should be able to point really good according to the luff. Naturally the other trim items would have to be adjusted for optimum upwind VMG. With regard to the deck-stepped mast you could check with Hunter and see what they say. I can't speak for the 23 mast design capability but I wouldn't think that Hunter would produce this kind of a boat that would not be capable of carrying a chute. Just checked the photos for the 23 and found an orignial Hutner 23 brochure which shows the boat flying a chute - see link below (Ed.: looks good too!). PS: if the link doesn't work try this: http://www.sailboatowners.com/album/display.tpl?fno=0&id=Niffenegger73082564710&bts=T If you plan to race it will really help to have a range of sails available.
I don't think so!!
Kevin: If you think that a boat with a deck stepped mast should not be flying a chute of anykind there are a lot of sailors that are in trouble. Most of the production boats like Hunter, Beneteau, Catalina etc all made many models with deck stepped rigs.
Kevin: If you think that a boat with a deck stepped mast should not be flying a chute of anykind there are a lot of sailors that are in trouble. Most of the production boats like Hunter, Beneteau, Catalina etc all made many models with deck stepped rigs.
Stress of big sails in light winds
Part of the beauty of an asymetric and a 110 is that we can easily get the asymetric down using the sock, and unroll the 110 if the wind picks up. So we don't carry the asymetric in heavy wind. And the 110 has great shape even if we roller reef it to a 90. That means the mast never sees unusual stress, as does my friend who sails his 150 in most weather. His other result is excessive healing, and lousy shape when he furls it past 120. The 150 is a racing rule-beater. Many racing fleets/rules penalize or do not allow spinnakers, or put boats carrying them in another class. A recent Sail article explained that a big genny is not designed for downwind sailing. You _can_ point better with a 150 than an asymetric. So I think of the asymetric as a cruising sail while the 150 is for racers. Oh, and Steve is right. Deck stepping has no impact on the ability to carry a spinnaker. David Lady Lillie '77 h27
Part of the beauty of an asymetric and a 110 is that we can easily get the asymetric down using the sock, and unroll the 110 if the wind picks up. So we don't carry the asymetric in heavy wind. And the 110 has great shape even if we roller reef it to a 90. That means the mast never sees unusual stress, as does my friend who sails his 150 in most weather. His other result is excessive healing, and lousy shape when he furls it past 120. The 150 is a racing rule-beater. Many racing fleets/rules penalize or do not allow spinnakers, or put boats carrying them in another class. A recent Sail article explained that a big genny is not designed for downwind sailing. You _can_ point better with a 150 than an asymetric. So I think of the asymetric as a cruising sail while the 150 is for racers. Oh, and Steve is right. Deck stepping has no impact on the ability to carry a spinnaker. David Lady Lillie '77 h27
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