Sailrite sewing machine advise

Sam Salter · Jul 11, 2012

I've had an LSZ-1 for about 6 years.
I have a sail repair and canvas business. It's my main sewing machine.
I've never had any problems with it and Sailrite support is solid.
If you're going to do all the stuff on your boat, you need zig-zag as well as straight stitch. It will punch through 10 thicknesses of Sunbrella and sew leather and window vinyl with ease. It was well worth the cost given that I've had few problems. When It did start to skip stitches I was able to retime it myself using the very comprehensive manual.
I hear the cheaper versions of the sailrite machine are not supported very well, but I don't have personal experience with that.
sam

caguy · Jul 11, 2012

Other than repairing sails I can't think of any other reason to have a zig zag.
I have a Juki that does all my other straight stitch sewing jobs . A good use one runs about 300 dollars .

kenn · Jul 11, 2012

My wife inherited her grandmother's Singer sewing machine which dates from the early 50's. It's all metal; not a scrap of plastic. She had it aligned and tuned, and it did a great job putting together a Sailrite sail cover kit.

Based on this, I'd guess that a decent 'home' machine would be adequate for doing your own boat canvas work, which doesn't usually require zig-zag, or the sort of heavy piercing power required for sails. If a machine can sew denim, it can probably sew Sunbrella.

So, you might consider finding a good used sewing machine, or if possible, a used commercial machine.

Ross · Jul 11, 2012

The canvas used for boat work is much easier to sew than sail cloth. And good home sewing machine will serve.

lehighsail · Jul 11, 2012

I bought a Sears machine a few years ago for about $300. It has a hard time going thru more than 3 layers of fabric. That being said, to do over again, I would buy a heavy duty machine because some projects require going thru more layers, canvas and vinyl windows etc.

Sumner · Jul 11, 2012

We started with an older industrial singer...

...we bought off e-bay ($200) and Ruth did a lot of projects with it.

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor-canvas/canvas-index.html

It has the power to get through sunbrella, but no walking foot and it can be a pain...

...getting a lot of material through it. We have kept it and still use it for lighter sewing, but bought the LSZ-1 and love it. There are similar china models out there but as was mentioned above the support that sailrite gives in the way of parts, manuals, online support and phone support is well worth spending the money on. Any sewing machine if used much is going to develop a problem. It might be as simple as the needle hits some of the parts and the thread starts to snag and unravel or the timing gets out like was mentioned and if you can't figure out what is going on you will be dead in the water. You will sooner or later need some parts to take care of problems. If you buy a used industrial machine make sure you have the support to keep it running right. We don't live anywhere near support like that, so the support sailrite has given us has kept us going and getting projects done that otherwise would of been halted for some time.

Look for a sailrite sale and get the machine with the heavier flywheel. I also have info on our site..

...on how to modify the foot pedal improving the control even more...

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor-canvas/canvas-14.html

Also you will find that where edges and corners come together where you have hems that you will be going through 6 to 10 layers of sunbrella at times and really need more power than any home machine is going to deliver.

We have info here on how we made the dodger, bimini and more for the Endeavour here...

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/endeavour-main/canvas-index.html

Having some room to spread these...

...larger projects is also important. Good luck and allocate some time for those projects,

Sum

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Fred Villiard · Jul 11, 2012

Check Defender.com their machine is the same as the LZ-1 except the color and about 1/2 price, LZ-1 accesories will fit.

Fred Villiard

Siamese · Jul 11, 2012

The Sailrite machine will work just fine, and is a good choice for those with no knowledge of heavy duty sewing machines.

There are MANY machines that can be purchased used for a little or a lot less than the Sailrite, and are considerably better machines.

I use a Consew 206B which far outshines the Sailrite. Just one point of comparison would be it's motor of 3/4 horsepower vs. the 1/10 horsepower motor on the Sailrite. The Consew 206B is a common machine, and is easily found used.

For those with no knowledge of them, it can be difficult to choose the appropriate used industrial machine. If you live anywhere near a good dealer who can assist you in the purchase of the right used machine, you would be much better off as compared to the Sailrite.

That said, the Sailrite will do what you want in a basic way, and I have no argument with those who use them and like them. They happen to have the advantage of being portable. But compared to the used machines available form Consew, Juki, Adler, etc., they're pretty crude.

sailormanbigd · Jul 11, 2012

been there done that!

Like you I wanted to do my own canvas work, cushions, bimini, and sail repair. I tried my 100$ sears homeowner machine-think it started to smoke and got stuck trying anything with thickness to it. I then researched online and found a used Italian machine, got it home and even though heavy duty it was'nt right. Searched craigslist for heavy duty or industrial sewing machine and looked at several and drove miles and miles to do so. Those industrials are super fast, way too fast for what I needed. I ended up buying a new portable zigzag walking foot machine its called a Reliable barracuda. Less than 500$ with a bunch of needles. The manual is in Japanenglish and not too good but the machine works well for my needs-bimini built, cushion covers, restitching mainsail, etc. I have to help it alittle sometimes in the real thick stuff though.

Ron20324 · Jul 11, 2012

I had a $100 Montgomery Wards all-metal machine, and I think that is different & better from the now-plastic ones. It would sew all six layers of Sunbrella where you'd make the corners or 2 hems. Six might be about the max layers you'd need to sew, I think.

anchorclanker · Jul 11, 2012

I have my Moms old Husqvarna. It will make about any stitch with the proper cams. It was sold for commercial use. She bought it back in the early 70's and used it for seamstress work, and making clothes and costumes. I remember when she was buying it, the salesman sewed through a yard stick, and a 1/4 inch of leather. But, it doesnt have a very large throat to pull material through. A sail is bulky. I agree with others to go to a local dealer who will sell you a good used machine they will stand behind. Ebay is not the place to buy something like that unless its so cheap, as well as being a model that parts and service are still readily available for. There are some old antique singer commercials that would work, but getting parts or service may be impossible.

Keith13315 · Jul 11, 2012

Defender does not have the SAME machine! Yes it looks like the SailRite but is isn't, yes asscrys are interchanable. I bought a LZ-1 The best thing I have done for sail repair it sews through the many layers of sail cloth at the clew and foot a joy to work with. I just wish I would have bought the the long arm professional but too expensive.

SVCarolena · Jul 11, 2012

If you can afford to spring for the Sailrite LSZ-1, DO IT! Although I cannot comment regarding older and less expensive machines, as I have not used them, I can say that I'm very happy withour LSZ and would buy it again in a hearbeat. I'm what you would call frugal, in that I like to save money and get a good value, but that means I'm also willing to spend the money for quality items that last. The thing is a tank. And, as others have noted, their customer support is excellent. You may find other machines that look like the Sailrite, but they are NOT the same. I'd also note that if you ever want to sell it, you would likely get most of your money back. I watched Craigslist, Ebay, and lots of sailing sites for about a year looking for a used one. They don't come up often and, when they do, the prices are very close to new. You will have it forever. If money is an issue, then I suggest as others have that you look for an old Singer. If you do go with the Sailrite, make sure you get the monster wheel attachment. Other attachments are nice, but that is the one I think is a nobrainer. I also suggest you call and talk with them - we got ours from the Annapolis store and they gave us the boat show pricing even though there was no show going on at the time. In other words, they will likely work with you on the price. I've also called and they priced matched other items I've orderd from them. It is a great family owned company - in fact, when I called about one item, the woman who was taking the order asked me to hold so she could check with Matt Grant, one of the owners who also does a lot of the videos. As for the cost, we built our own bimini and the machine paid for itself on that one project. I don't think we will ever sell it. If you get one, just be careful of the number of people who will want to borrow it when they see your work and find out how inexpensive canvas and sail repair can be. It is like being the only person around with a pickup truck.

Tejas · Jul 11, 2012

For clarification I am not a professional sewer. However, I have attended three weeks of sewing instruction at a marine canvas school.

First of all, I have followed several Suner posts and am totally in awe at what he and his wife have achieved – they are real talents. As for the rest of us, assuming portability and sewing sails is not important, and you are really serious about sewing several layers of canvas, webbing, glass … what you really might want to consider is a made in US, Japan or Germany industrial, compound walking-foot -- has both drop-feed (bottom-feed) and needle-feed (top-feed) with an alternating presser-foot -- sewing machine. Very nice to have features are reverse (some early machines do not), a large bobbin, knee or foot pedal foot lift and a servo motor. I think that Ccguy is correct that for other than repairing or making sails, zig-zag is not important.

The following links might be helpful, and do click on "show more" on the YouTube video.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sewing_machine#Feed_mechanisms

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-QjJgJKKVM

Sailrite is a good source for materials, notions and tools, and also for video tutorials. The Sailrite sewing machines are reported to be made in Taiwan or China and do not seem to have a good reputation with folks who sew canvas for a profession

I think that the following books are worth consideration, especially the Casey Book:

The Complete Canvasworker's Guide by Jim Grant
Canvaswork & Sail Repair by Don Casey
The Big Book of Boat Canvas by Karen S. Lipe

Beware that the number of layers you might want to sew can mount-up quickly. Sewing a simple mesh sun-screen with webbing at the corners with D-rings there were four layers of mesh and four layers of webbing, resulting in the maximum that could be gotten under a typical foot without knee lift.. The hem was only folded back once and the corners mitered. Had the hem been folded in on itself again without mitered corners, the number of layers of mesh would have been eight.

Also beware that sewing is the easy part – design and patterning, including the sequence of operations is what is really difficult.

I started with a Sailrite machine that I could not get adjusted even with excellent phone support, and returned it. A few years I tried again with Pfaff 130, often called semi-industrial and popular with some sailors, for $225 on craigslist, and that is similar in capability to the Sumner’s singer. While it sewed well, as a beginner I had little success and then acquired a circa 1950 Singer 111W155 via craigslist for $325 with none of the nice to have features plus $125 for a servo motor -- wonderful machine on which I completed several projects and that because of the lack of nice to have features I reluctantly sold and acquired a Juki 1508.

jibes138 · Jul 11, 2012

I've built several sails with my LSZ-1 and also some canvas work like a bimini, dodger, sail cover, sun covers on roller furling headsails, etc. I think the biggest challenge is the clew of a headsail where you have 5 layers of sailcloth, a folded in half sailcloth tape for the edges, a layer of nylon webbing to provide strength to the ring sewn into the clew for attaching the sheets, and maybe a sunbrella suncover on top of that. So 7 layers of sailcloth, 1 layer of nylon webbing, and a couple layers of sunbrella since the edge is folded under. It is like sewing through a rock. The LSZ-1 would bog down a bit with this challenge but would still go through it. I am very happy with the machine and have had it for probably 15 years or so.
Regarding not needing a zig zag stitch for canvas work I tend to disagree. Most of the canvas on my boat was sewed with a zig zag stitch. It is a much better stitch if you make a mistake and need to rip out the seam. Also if you later want to use the old one for a pattern it is much easier to rip it apart and use the pieces for patterns. Ripping out a straight stitch seam is much more time consuming unless there is a trick I haven't learned yet?
If you plan to sail and do you own work for many years then buy a quality product. Your first project will pay for the machine.

TomatoDave · Jul 11, 2012

Volksfolks62 said:
I'm going to start replacing the canvas (Bimini and dodger ) on my sail boat and all the upholstery on my power boat and figured a good sewing machine that could handle it all would be a good investment. I really don't want to fork over a grand on a sailrite machine unless it's absolutely worth it . Is there a different .(not so costly) machine I could get . I will be sewing canvas ,zippers,windows , the works ! And if I need to pony up for a sailrite machine ...is one better than the other ?....thanks for any help and advise !

Don Casey wrote an article for Good Old Boat about a vintage Necchi sewing machine -- a 1950s all metal unit that he felt rivaled an industrial sewing machine. I found a great one for $25 on CL. Do a search on YouTube for Necchi and you will see impressive videos. Good luck.

David

onecoolair · Jul 11, 2012

Sumner....Great posting! Sailrite is the best, worth every penny. I like your workshop setup...

Ron20324 · Jul 13, 2012

Baconsails.com has two LSZ-1 today. One in the black case is 375. The other in a white plastic case with a bunch of stuff in a bag is 575. I didn't look at either one.

Ross · Jul 14, 2012

jibes138 said:
I've built several sails with my LSZ-1 and also some canvas work like a bimini, dodger, sail cover, sun covers on roller furling headsails, etc. I think the biggest challenge is the clew of a headsail where you have 5 layers of sailcloth, a folded in half sailcloth tape for the edges, a layer of nylon webbing to provide strength to the ring sewn into the clew for attaching the sheets, and maybe a sunbrella suncover on top of that. So 7 layers of sailcloth, 1 layer of nylon webbing, and a couple layers of sunbrella since the edge is folded under. It is like sewing through a rock. The LSZ-1 would bog down a bit with this challenge but would still go through it. I am very happy with the machine and have had it for probably 15 years or so.
Regarding not needing a zig zag stitch for canvas work I tend to disagree. Most of the canvas on my boat was sewed with a zig zag stitch. It is a much better stitch if you make a mistake and need to rip out the seam. Also if you later want to use the old one for a pattern it is much easier to rip it apart and use the pieces for patterns. Ripping out a straight stitch seam is much more time consuming unless there is a trick I haven't learned yet?
If you plan to sail and do you own work for many years then buy a quality product. Your first project will pay for the machine.

Ripping seams is easy with two people or a vise and a sharp utility knife. You start opening the seam and then pull the two pieces of fabric apart exposing the stitches. Then you just touch the stitch and it will part. It works best with two people because you have to frequently change your grip.