I am trying to sailinto the wind without the jib. Having some success , some not so much. Is this practical? I find it difficult to set both sails at once
sailing without jib
- Thread starter Mark Barrett
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From my experience, having your jib up helps to direct air over the main in a way that makes it a lot more efficient to get moving. What aspects of getting both up and set are giving you troubles, perhaps there's something in there we can help with.
I have trouble holding the rudder and getting to the jib. I suppose there is some way to tie the rudder and get to the jib? I wanted to know how necessary the jib is, as I'm really only looking to go out and have some fun. Thanks for the help, I need it
Assuming we're talking about the Javelin, I can't really speak to how much is required. I know on my 26', I usually raise my main, and leave it eased so it's doesn't jump too quick, and the genoa goes up pretty quickly, just a matter of seconds to get it fully raised and tied off. On a smaller boat, not sure exactly how simple the raising is, but it might give you enough time to tie off the rudder to the side for just a moment. Also make sure your mainsheet is eased out to slow you, and it should also keep you level enough instead of heeled over, which should also limit how fast the boat tries to round up or down on you while you work on it. Sometimes, it just takes a bunch of practice to get a good technique and method that works for you. Not everyone does it the same, so it's just a matter of figuring out your own way.
Mark, most sloop rigged boats don't sail to windward very well without a jib, that is under mainsail alone. That being said, if you are sailing with just the main, sure, you can't point very high, but you should still be able to make headway to windward, just with more tacks than usual. Also, keep in mind that you have to tack smoothly, but quickly. Don't be jerky and just throw the tiller over, but don't dilly-dally, either. Also, the boat will work to windward better, and tack better, with more boat speed. Sometimes short-tacking with just the main can be difficult, because you really don't have much room to build boat speed to actually have the centerboard/rudder develop any lift and make some CMG.
As for locking your rudder to allow you some hands-free time, say to go forward and hoist a jib, check out the Wave Front Marine Tiller Clutch: http://wavefrontmarine.com I have one on both my O'day 192, and my open daysailer style Harpoon 4.6.
On my GP14, I had a bungee cord that went from side to side across the cockpit, under the tiller. When I needed a few seconds of hands-free, I would lift the bungee over the top of the tiller, and the friction of the bungee pushing down on the tiller was enough for me to do things about the cockpit that needed doing. The poor man's bungee autopilot won't hold up to stronger winds, but you probably don't want to let go of the tiller in those conditions
As for locking your rudder to allow you some hands-free time, say to go forward and hoist a jib, check out the Wave Front Marine Tiller Clutch: http://wavefrontmarine.com I have one on both my O'day 192, and my open daysailer style Harpoon 4.6.
On my GP14, I had a bungee cord that went from side to side across the cockpit, under the tiller. When I needed a few seconds of hands-free, I would lift the bungee over the top of the tiller, and the friction of the bungee pushing down on the tiller was enough for me to do things about the cockpit that needed doing. The poor man's bungee autopilot won't hold up to stronger winds, but you probably don't want to let go of the tiller in those conditions
its a lot easier if you have your boat set up for single handing to begin with, otherwise without someone on the tiller or tiller pilot, its a real challenge to sail the boat properly.
all boats are a bit different, but on the ones I have had any experience with, sailing on the jib alone is much more efficient than using only the main by itself... but on this design of boat the sails are designed to work together. without both sails up you will have poor performance no matter what individual sail you choose to fly.
all boats are a bit different, but on the ones I have had any experience with, sailing on the jib alone is much more efficient than using only the main by itself... but on this design of boat the sails are designed to work together. without both sails up you will have poor performance no matter what individual sail you choose to fly.
Mark,
A centerboard boat will not hold a course long (if at all) without a tiller clutch, tiller tamer, or a homemade device to hold the tiller stationary. I use a tiller tamer on my O'Day Daysailer and it allows me to let go of the tiller long enough to raise the jib. I sail my boat solo most of the time and almost always use the jib (unless the wind is really strong). One fellow on the Daysailer forum has a homemade tiller tamer consisting of two or three wraps of bungee around the tiller and secured on either side of the cockpit. If you do sail under mainsail alone, raise the centerboard about 1/3 to 1/2 way to move the center of rotation aft and balance the helm.
A centerboard boat will not hold a course long (if at all) without a tiller clutch, tiller tamer, or a homemade device to hold the tiller stationary. I use a tiller tamer on my O'Day Daysailer and it allows me to let go of the tiller long enough to raise the jib. I sail my boat solo most of the time and almost always use the jib (unless the wind is really strong). One fellow on the Daysailer forum has a homemade tiller tamer consisting of two or three wraps of bungee around the tiller and secured on either side of the cockpit. If you do sail under mainsail alone, raise the centerboard about 1/3 to 1/2 way to move the center of rotation aft and balance the helm.
The others have it. 1. Tiller tamer. 2. Mate. How about leading the halyards aft? It should not take much to get the halyards to the cockpit on a small boat.
Short of that, when raising the sails, don't sheet them in til you raise both. Are you motoring? Leave the rudder up and lock the motor straight. Leave it in gear, idling forward. When you are ready, lower the rudder, shut off the motor and raise it.
Sailing off the dock? Raise the sails at the dock and sail away. Be sure to raise your sails on the lee side of the dock! If the dock is on your lee side, you and the sails can get grounded against it!
Sailing off the beach? Raise both sails on the beach with the boat pointed into the wind and unsheeted. Shove the boat into the water, sheet in the sails, and let 'er rip! (Figuratively)...
Thanks,
Andrew
Short of that, when raising the sails, don't sheet them in til you raise both. Are you motoring? Leave the rudder up and lock the motor straight. Leave it in gear, idling forward. When you are ready, lower the rudder, shut off the motor and raise it.
Sailing off the dock? Raise the sails at the dock and sail away. Be sure to raise your sails on the lee side of the dock! If the dock is on your lee side, you and the sails can get grounded against it!
Sailing off the beach? Raise both sails on the beach with the boat pointed into the wind and unsheeted. Shove the boat into the water, sheet in the sails, and let 'er rip! (Figuratively)...
Thanks,
Andrew
All good advice and I love my Tiller Clutch and have also brought my lines back to cockpit. Of course trade-offs. Equipment aside--- get out and sail as much as possible. It helps me to go out early when winds are light and play. Gives me more time when trying things. Im just starting to "catch up" to the boat (Oday 222).
Mark, there are plusses and minuses to leading halyards aft on pretty much any boat.
However, I feel on small, open, daysailer boats such as the Javelin, it would be very impractical to lead halyards aft. I've never had problems moving to the mast on either the 15' Harpoon or the 14' GP14. Well, or a Sunfish, for that matter…
Some device to hold the tiller for you will go a LONG way toward helping you. The Davis Tiller Tamer http://www.davisnet.com/marine/products/marine_product.asp?pnum=02205 is an option, and admittedly less expensive than the Tiller Clutch. I've had both, and I hate the Tiller Tamer. It uses a screw knob to increase and reduce friction on a control line. It's too damn fiddly for me, screwing and unscrewing that knob.
If you want to go even less expensive than the Davis Tiller Tamer, you could rig your own Cajun Tiller Tamer: http://www.blumhorst.com/potterpages/Photopoint/0005/cajun-tiller-tamer.htm
However, I feel on small, open, daysailer boats such as the Javelin, it would be very impractical to lead halyards aft. I've never had problems moving to the mast on either the 15' Harpoon or the 14' GP14. Well, or a Sunfish, for that matter…
Some device to hold the tiller for you will go a LONG way toward helping you. The Davis Tiller Tamer http://www.davisnet.com/marine/products/marine_product.asp?pnum=02205 is an option, and admittedly less expensive than the Tiller Clutch. I've had both, and I hate the Tiller Tamer. It uses a screw knob to increase and reduce friction on a control line. It's too damn fiddly for me, screwing and unscrewing that knob.
If you want to go even less expensive than the Davis Tiller Tamer, you could rig your own Cajun Tiller Tamer: http://www.blumhorst.com/potterpages/Photopoint/0005/cajun-tiller-tamer.htm
I have one of each, tiller clutch (on my 272) and tiller lock (on my C22). The tiller lock is a nice looking and well designed piece of hardware, and it is less than the tiller lock. Here it is:
http://www.cansail.com
I like both products fine. They are both well made and function well. No complaints. The tiller lock is less expensive but takes a little while to get to you. The tiller clutch is more expensive but is in stock in popular online stores.
I have had small boats with all the lines led aft, and I have had small boats without lines led aft. I can't say I had a preference... Once I was comfortable with the boat. I think the advice to get a tiller-(something) and get comfortable and sail a lot is wise advice.
Thanks,
Andrew
http://www.cansail.com
I like both products fine. They are both well made and function well. No complaints. The tiller lock is less expensive but takes a little while to get to you. The tiller clutch is more expensive but is in stock in popular online stores.
I have had small boats with all the lines led aft, and I have had small boats without lines led aft. I can't say I had a preference... Once I was comfortable with the boat. I think the advice to get a tiller-(something) and get comfortable and sail a lot is wise advice.
Thanks,
Andrew
Andrew (agprice22)
Thanks so much for your post on the canSail Tillerlock. I know of its existence, and consider it one of the 3 commercial products out there (including Tiller Tamer and Tiller Clutch) but I always forget what it's called and who sells it.
But you've got it right here!
There's another type of tiller control device that Sail Care sells. I've never seen it or used it. I think it's a variation on the bungee cord friction setup that many people make as a DIY… If one doesn't want to buy a system, Google can show you many DIY variations…
The thing I like about the Tiller Clutch and the canSail Tillerlock, is that they are either on or off, easily, when you need them on or off...
Thanks so much for your post on the canSail Tillerlock. I know of its existence, and consider it one of the 3 commercial products out there (including Tiller Tamer and Tiller Clutch) but I always forget what it's called and who sells it.
But you've got it right here!
There's another type of tiller control device that Sail Care sells. I've never seen it or used it. I think it's a variation on the bungee cord friction setup that many people make as a DIY… If one doesn't want to buy a system, Google can show you many DIY variations…
The thing I like about the Tiller Clutch and the canSail Tillerlock, is that they are either on or off, easily, when you need them on or off...
Thanks! I must have googled 50 terms looking for tiller control devices a few years back! I finally came across Tiller Lock... and found it. I am enjoying my Tiller Clutch. I love balancing the boat and letting it hold it on a tack. Then I sit back and relax!
Thanks,
Andrew
Thanks,
Andrew
I sail my DS II quite often without the jib, in fact that is my "first reef" when the wind increases. The "trick" is to simply raise the CB a bit to move the center-of-lateral resistance (that is center of underwater area, in htis case the centerboard) more in line with the center of effort of the sail. This will reduce the weather helm (tendancy to trun into hte wind) when sailing with just the main. Don't raise the Cb too much or you will experience "Lee helm" the tendancy to turn away from the wind. You do want a slight amount of weather helm for safety as that will turn the boat into the wind to spill wind from the sail(s) and help prevent a capsize.
The smaller O'DAYs with their large mainsail and smaller jib actually will sail better under main than most sailboats, this is a good feature especially for learning to sail and for days when hte wind is too strong to comfortably use both sails. Again, just raise the CB a bit to better balance sail area to CB position. My old Widgeon would also sail very well with just the mainsail, I just raised the CB a bit.
If you are trying to raise the jib while underway, it is actually safer to let the boat head up into the wind while doing so. Release the mainsheet as well to prevent that sail from filling and heeling the boat suddenly. I usually raise the sails before leaving hte mooring, but can raise hte jib underway by letting the boat round up into the wind while doing so, then bearing off after the jib is up. A tiller extension (aka hiking stick) come in handy to extend your reach when you need to move forward in the cockpit while sailing, or if you sit on hte side deck while sailing in higher winds.
By the way, most of the pictures posted below were taken the first season that I had my Widgeon.... and I'm not wearing my life jacket! YIKES!! I don't know what I was thinking, I was a lot smarter starting with the second season with that boat and wore my life jacket virtually all the time (rare exception was in extremely light winds and calm seas, when it was sitting on the seat next to me). I would never go out in my DS II solo without a proper life jacket now. ( I have an inflatable one now).
The smaller O'DAYs with their large mainsail and smaller jib actually will sail better under main than most sailboats, this is a good feature especially for learning to sail and for days when hte wind is too strong to comfortably use both sails. Again, just raise the CB a bit to better balance sail area to CB position. My old Widgeon would also sail very well with just the mainsail, I just raised the CB a bit.
If you are trying to raise the jib while underway, it is actually safer to let the boat head up into the wind while doing so. Release the mainsheet as well to prevent that sail from filling and heeling the boat suddenly. I usually raise the sails before leaving hte mooring, but can raise hte jib underway by letting the boat round up into the wind while doing so, then bearing off after the jib is up. A tiller extension (aka hiking stick) come in handy to extend your reach when you need to move forward in the cockpit while sailing, or if you sit on hte side deck while sailing in higher winds.
By the way, most of the pictures posted below were taken the first season that I had my Widgeon.... and I'm not wearing my life jacket! YIKES!! I don't know what I was thinking, I was a lot smarter starting with the second season with that boat and wore my life jacket virtually all the time (rare exception was in extremely light winds and calm seas, when it was sitting on the seat next to me). I would never go out in my DS II solo without a proper life jacket now. ( I have an inflatable one now).
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The Cajun tiller tamer works great. Takes a little practice with adjusting tension but I prefer this Cajun tiller tamer method over the devices. I got rid of my Davis tiller clutch.
Oday222
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