Hi everyone... The seller of a 1977 Catalina 22 was telling me that he most often sails his boat with the swing keel in the up position unless it gets "very windy or the seas are high." What do people think about that? I've mostly sailed fixed keels and Lasers so I didn't know what to think - but it seems like the keel in the down position might be helpful more often than not (even though 550lbs is a fair amount of ballast). What do people think? Can I cruise around with the thing up? And when would you put it down? Chris.
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Sailing Keel Up
I accidently left my keel up a few weeks ago and didn't notice until I tried to lift it to negotiate the channel home. I hope to never do that again. In crossing Lake Salvador, I had steady winds of 8-10 on the port beam and made only five miles of headway and three miles of leeway. The boat seemed to handle normally. A crossing that should have taken two hours and I was all the way on the other side of the lake! Personally I don't advise sailing keel up. ljp: Saint Benedict, #14686
I accidently left my keel up a few weeks ago and didn't notice until I tried to lift it to negotiate the channel home. I hope to never do that again. In crossing Lake Salvador, I had steady winds of 8-10 on the port beam and made only five miles of headway and three miles of leeway. The boat seemed to handle normally. A crossing that should have taken two hours and I was all the way on the other side of the lake! Personally I don't advise sailing keel up. ljp: Saint Benedict, #14686
Is it unsafe?
Would you consider sailing swing-keel-up slow and inefficient, or unsafe? I'm pretty concerned about the safety issue.
Would you consider sailing swing-keel-up slow and inefficient, or unsafe? I'm pretty concerned about the safety issue.
unsafe and slow
Hi Chris the first question is it unsafe has been covered a lot in the archives and the general answer has always been _UNSAFE!!!. I go with that answer big time. If you get hit with a gust and heel over a little more than you want the keel would not be there to right you or atleast hold you there while the boat rounds up into the wind. You very well could turn turtle and then you have problems. As for speed i can not imagine you would be able to make any speed as you do not have the keel to offer risistance to give you the squirt. The way I understand the dynamics of sailing is like a grape squeezed between the fingers it is squeezed until it reaches the point that it slips out and goes forward. the wind is in your sail and that pushes against the keel which pushes the oposite way and thus the boat squirts forward. Thats is the long answer to a short question. Short anser to a long question is yes it is unsafe and slow. Put the keel down and lock it. Happy sailing Herb
Hi Chris the first question is it unsafe has been covered a lot in the archives and the general answer has always been _UNSAFE!!!. I go with that answer big time. If you get hit with a gust and heel over a little more than you want the keel would not be there to right you or atleast hold you there while the boat rounds up into the wind. You very well could turn turtle and then you have problems. As for speed i can not imagine you would be able to make any speed as you do not have the keel to offer risistance to give you the squirt. The way I understand the dynamics of sailing is like a grape squeezed between the fingers it is squeezed until it reaches the point that it slips out and goes forward. the wind is in your sail and that pushes against the keel which pushes the oposite way and thus the boat squirts forward. Thats is the long answer to a short question. Short anser to a long question is yes it is unsafe and slow. Put the keel down and lock it. Happy sailing Herb
uh yep!
For different reasons I agree with Herb. I have never been to Alaska but maybe he meant that the keel can, and does, provide some "lift". The ability to tack will be hindered as well because the hull effectivly "pivots" on the keel during a turn. A five foot long "skeg" will not pivot as freely as a two foot wide blade. In my opinion the most critical point, and the point most related to safety, is that it will change the righting moment of your boat and that will alter everything from the power of your sail package to your abilty to control the boat through various weather conditions. If you don't have one see if you can get an original owners manual for your year, it will have a good explaination of the purpose, and the use, of the "swing" keel. Good luck & welcome to the family
For different reasons I agree with Herb. I have never been to Alaska but maybe he meant that the keel can, and does, provide some "lift". The ability to tack will be hindered as well because the hull effectivly "pivots" on the keel during a turn. A five foot long "skeg" will not pivot as freely as a two foot wide blade. In my opinion the most critical point, and the point most related to safety, is that it will change the righting moment of your boat and that will alter everything from the power of your sail package to your abilty to control the boat through various weather conditions. If you don't have one see if you can get an original owners manual for your year, it will have a good explaination of the purpose, and the use, of the "swing" keel. Good luck & welcome to the family
Not good
My vote goes to it being unsafe and an unskilled way of sailing. The keel is a key player in the physics of sailing. Taking it out of the equation invites possible tragedy and complicates navigation. If you are sailing with the keel up unknowingly, I hope you realize what is missing before you end up on the leeward shore. 73’ #2113 Rick
My vote goes to it being unsafe and an unskilled way of sailing. The keel is a key player in the physics of sailing. Taking it out of the equation invites possible tragedy and complicates navigation. If you are sailing with the keel up unknowingly, I hope you realize what is missing before you end up on the leeward shore. 73’ #2113 Rick
Up?
The only time I have ever sailed "keel up" was dead down wind, wing-on-wing, to get a little more speed. And that was with a very experienced sailor. I think the only reason Catalina used a swing keel is for trailering the boat, as they also made a version of the 22 with a fixed keel. I hadn't considered the righting ability of the keel on a 22, but as explained earilier, it seems to be an important safety factor also.
The only time I have ever sailed "keel up" was dead down wind, wing-on-wing, to get a little more speed. And that was with a very experienced sailor. I think the only reason Catalina used a swing keel is for trailering the boat, as they also made a version of the 22 with a fixed keel. I hadn't considered the righting ability of the keel on a 22, but as explained earilier, it seems to be an important safety factor also.
motoring
yes, since I trained on a 14.2 I learned the distinct advantage of sailing with the keel up for downwind legs as well as in a slightly raised position for other conditions. now, on my 22 I only raise the keel up for motoring with sails dropped and lock it down for sail power. Of course, I sometimes have to raise the keel when I ground out in the lake or want to get close to shore, but that's with sails down. best wishes.
yes, since I trained on a 14.2 I learned the distinct advantage of sailing with the keel up for downwind legs as well as in a slightly raised position for other conditions. now, on my 22 I only raise the keel up for motoring with sails dropped and lock it down for sail power. Of course, I sometimes have to raise the keel when I ground out in the lake or want to get close to shore, but that's with sails down. best wishes.
Try this...
On a light air day, say 5 to 8 knots, go out on the boat with the keel up. Get her to point as high as you can, then maintain the helm position as an assistant lowers the keel. You'll notice the difference.
On a light air day, say 5 to 8 knots, go out on the boat with the keel up. Get her to point as high as you can, then maintain the helm position as an assistant lowers the keel. You'll notice the difference.
depend on the point of sail
as someone else mentioned, all the way up for a dead run. from a dead run to close hauled all the way up to all the way down. points in between vary. try different positions for different points of sail. rule of thumb, the closer to the wind the lower the keel. IMHO
as someone else mentioned, all the way up for a dead run. from a dead run to close hauled all the way up to all the way down. points in between vary. try different positions for different points of sail. rule of thumb, the closer to the wind the lower the keel. IMHO
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