Sailing with no furling winch

[baycloud]

Hey all, how have those without winches on their furling lines done it? I have had to release the jib sheet to use the winch to furl. Seems highly inadequate on a 40' boat. I had more winches on my 23 footer.

Where I sail there's massive traffic and pointing into the wind can be challenging in channels etc. I have found my Legend 40.5 challenging to shorthand. I plan on adding a main sheet line to the helm station, and am trying to scope out a furling winch.

To tack, one essentially has to make a 360 loop around the cockpit, worse if you have to furl.

Any suggestions to make single handing easier? Experiences adding a winch?

 

[markwbird]

I sail downwind and blanket the jib with the main to furl it. No load

 

[sail sfbay]

Never used a winch to furl my jib on any of my sailboats, including Hunter 46. Occasionally, I have to luff the jib and ease the sheet before furiling. However, if you are still having problems furling follow markwbird's procedure. Same discussion on this thread Technique for furling in high winds | SailNet Community.

 

[tfox2069]

Agree with @sail sfbay on this. If you need a winch to furl the jib get the pressure off of it. @markwbird mentioned my favorite shortcut technique above. And if after taking the pressure off there's still that much friction you need a winch to furl the jib you really need to solve that problem. Winching against whatever is causing the friction is wearing components that will fail sooner rather than later, and it will be...inconvenient. Like when my 135 blew out its bearings in a gust front as I rolled it up, completely unrolling by itself. Tons of fun shorthanded running downwind with a full genoa in a thunderstorm before you can drop your furling genoa to the deck. Good luck.

 

[fero]

You can also read this link on the subject:

Legend 40.5 - Genoa furling line cockpit arrangement

Hi again, Another subject this time. I find the furling line cockpit arrangement not very good on my boat, being just the jam cleat on the port coaming. Manageable on the port tack, by using port genoa sheet winch, but a bit painful on stb tack especially in stronger breeze ( of course turning...

forums.sailboatowners.com

 

[sail sfbay]

..........Winching against whatever is causing the friction is wearing components that will fail sooner rather than later.............

Agree.......my wife reminds me that if it is too hard I must be doing something wrong!!

 

[jssailem]

Any suggestions to make single handing easier? Experiences adding a winch?

Making life easier as a solo sailor generally involves

1. high levels of equipment maintenance to assure it functions optimally
2. doing tasks earlier than later
3. developing a plan to do tasks that in a sequence that minimizes wasted effort.

A furling system should function without undue friction that would cause the crew to seek equipment (a winch) to increase the force. That is where I would start my efforts. With use the bearings that make the furler spin smoothly, get gunk in them. This means both the upper and lower bearings. They can be cleaned and rinsed with dish soap and water.

Next up is the furling line. Is the condition frayed and dirty? Cleaning or replacing the line may be needed. Are all the fairleads in good shape? Smooth and aligned to minimze any friction or entanglement of the furling line.

You mentioned the “massive traffic” issue as you return to the marina. Solo sailing into traffic will put a strain on your skills. Perhaps furling the jib further out from the marina and coming in under main and auxiliary power will make this a less stressful activity.

 

[Alice A.]

Fall off and blanket the Genoa behind the main. It will be very easy to furl and you will get a tight wrap if you take the slack out of the sheets as you furl.

 

[baycloud]

Thanks all, good advice. Upon reflecting, I think that it's really because I always feel a bit stressed for sea room when maneuvering in the tight Richmond channels. I had to furl without changing course in 30kn apparent. 3 boats within 10 boat lengths rounding a bend. Typical situation regarding traffic and wind speed. Stb tack, so had to let the sail flog completely which I don't like. If I don't use the winch, the sail invariably slips and unfurls itself again in 20+ knots. In retrospect I should have never unfirled it until I was in a better position.

I could furl it two handed when flogging. But cant really do that since all i have is a cleat. So you can only use one hand (cleating with the other) if youre trying to partial furl. What I'm hearing is that most people don't do that, but rather furl all the way while blanketing the jib. I'll try it again but I honestly doubt that anything but a winch or at least a jam cleat will be easy.

Brand new furler and line.

 

[Davidasailor26]

Blanketing behind the main really is the way to go. You shouldn’t need the mechanical advantage of a winch that way. It does take some anticipation to do that in a position where you have room. We do have a clutch to hold the furling line and that does help a lot. That way there’s no fear of the line slipping back out between pulls.

 

[baycloud]

Blanketing behind the main really is the way to go. You shouldn’t need the mechanical advantage of a winch that way. It does take some anticipation to do that in a position where you have room. We do have a clutch to hold the furling line and that does help a lot. That way there’s no fear of the line slipping back out between pulls.

Yes, before adding a winch, I'll look for a clutch with the same bolt pattern as my cleat

 

[tfox2069]

Yes, before adding a winch, I'll look for a clutch with the same bolt pattern as my cleat

Another option is to attach a ratchet block with a cam cleat to your arch and lead your furling line through that. I singlehand a lot and that lets me keep tension on the jibsheet with one hand while I pull the furling line through the cam cleatwith the other, and when I reach the full length of pull I can let go of the furling line, leaving it in the cam, and reset for another full pull without the furling line running free. This also obviated the need to drill into the boat. You can either use a soft shackle, or if necessary SBO sells the hardware to attach a clamp to your arch to which you can attack the block. I don't have a photo handy, but if you need one for it to make sense just respond and I'll snap one this weekend while I'm trying not to melt.

 

[baycloud]

Another option is to attach a ratchet block with a cam cleat to your arch and lead your furling line through that. I singlehand a lot and that lets me keep tension on the jibsheet with one hand while I pull the furling line through the cam cleatwith the other, and when I reach the full length of pull I can let go of the furling line, leaving it in the cam, and reset for another full pull without the furling line running free. This also obviated the need to drill into the boat. You can either use a soft shackle, or if necessary SBO sells the hardware to attach a clamp to your arch to which you can attack the block. I don't have a photo handy, but if you need one for it to make sense just respond and I'll snap one this weekend while I'm trying not to melt.

Very good ideas. No arch though, this is what I'm working with. Plz excuse the mess, it was a project day. Winch has jib sheet. Black line is furling line.

 

[dkinzer]

this is what I'm working with.

My H41DS had a racheting block and a cleat to tie off the headsail furling line, too. I replaced the racheting block with a Garhauer block with a cam cleat. The cam cleat holds the furling line nicely and I don't need to cleat it off. The cleat is partially under one of the canvas side panels that I had made to enclose the cockpit more. That made it difficult to use the cleat. The new arrangement is very nice and I can use any available winch, if necessary, to furl the headsail.

Garhauer Block with Cam Cleat

I searched quite a few places including eBay and West Marine and all the other blocks with a cam cleat were significantly more money. This one is nicely made; the only disadvantage that I can see is that the position of the cam cleat is not adjustable like it is on some others.

 

[jssailem]

The last fairlead on the line, is it a ratcheting block?
Here is a 57mm Harken. I have the 40. It tensions the line reduces the pressure I have.

 

[baycloud]

My H41DS had a racheting block and a cleat to tie off the headsail furling line, too. I replaced the racheting block with a Garhauer block with a cam cleat. The cam cleat holds the furling line nicely and I don't need to cleat it off. The cleat is partially under one of the canvas side panels that I had made to enclose the cockpit more. That made it difficult to use the cleat. The new arrangement is very nice and I can use any available winch, if necessary, to furl the headsail.

Garhauer Block with Cam Cleat

I searched quite a few places including eBay and West Marine and all the other blocks with a cam cleat were significantly more money. This one is nicely made; the only disadvantage that I can see is that the position of the cam cleat is not adjustable like it is on some others.

That looks perfect! Thank you

The last fairlead on the line, is it a ratcheting block?
Here is a 57mm Harken. I have the 40. It tensions the line reduces the pressure I have.

View attachment 207566

it is not. I googled ratcheting blocks. I think they may come in handy.

 

[Crusty Ol Salt]

Where I sail there's massive traffic and pointing into the wind can be challenging in channels etc. I have found my Legend 40.5 challenging to shorthand. I plan on adding a main sheet line to the helm station, and am trying to scope out a furling winch.

Thanks all, good advice. Upon reflecting, I think that it's really because I always feel a bit stressed for sea room when maneuvering in the tight Richmond channels. I had to furl without changing course in 30kn apparent. 3 boats within 10 boat lengths rounding a bend. Typical situation regarding traffic and wind speed. Stb tack, so had to let the sail flog completely which I don't like. If I don't use the winch, the sail invariably slips and unfurls itself again in 20+ knots. In retrospect I should have never unfirled it until I was in a better position.

You mentioned the “massive traffic” issue as you return to the marina. Solo sailing into traffic will put a strain on your skills. Perhaps furling the jib further out from the marina and coming in under main and auxiliary power will make this a less stressful activity.

Back when I was a much younger man, serving in the navy we had a term for operating in tight spots. It was called restricted maneuvering. Maybe when you are solo sailing in a restricted maneuvering condition you need to plan accordingly and not have so much on your plate.

I operate at the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay. Some days it is a mess between the navy, commercial shipping, and pleasure crafts of all shapes and sizes. I also understand my limitations. I motor out a little further, raise my sails a little later and drop them a little earlier. As a matter of fact I changed my marina so that I was not leaving it and sailing into the Thimble Shoals shipping channel.

I know my limitations and admit to them. I think adding a winch will not solve all the issues.

 

[tfox2069]

Very good ideas. No arch though, this is what I'm working with. Plz excuse the mess, it was a project day. Winch has jib sheet. Black line is furling line.

Why can't you replace that last block with a ratchet block with cam cleat?

 

[dkinzer]

Why can't you replace that last block with a ratchet block with cam cleat?

I replaced mine with a non-ratcheting block with a cam cleat. I'm interested to know the benefit of a rachet block in conjunction with a cam cleat.

 

[tfox2069]

I replaced mine with a non-ratcheting block with a cam cleat. I'm interested to know the benefit of a rachet block in conjunction with a cam cleat.

They require less holding power to keep a line from slipping than a non-ratcheting block, which turns freely. Some are even load sensing. That can allow you to maintain tension on your jib sheet, hold the furling line briefly in the same hand while you let go of your grip momentarily of the hand hauling in the furling line to reposition it for another pull. Hope that makes sense. I don't find that the furling line imparts that much tension, so a non-ratcheting block with a cam cleat works fine on my boat. But for bigger boats (or for folks with less strength) it may be an issue. Ratchet blocks are also more expensive. Harken makes an "auto ratchet" which is supposed to be revolutionary in the market (e.g. senses the load and allows slip when its light - so you can let a sheet out without having to turn the ratchet off, has a variable load setting for the ratched, etc.). Haven't seen one yet, so can't comment.