Sailing with Efficiency

[Cole07]

I've been sailing for about 8 years now (with 2 years of hardcore 420 racing) and I got my own O'day Daysailer in 2018. This summer was the first time I've ever gone solo sailing for more than 15 minutes on a boat bigger than 14 feet. The first time I went out on my own had both the mainsail and jib out all the way (I don't have furling or reefing) and it went pretty good while I was in the cove where I launched. However, as I made my way out into the bay the wind picked up a little more than I expected. Nothing bad happened, but I just lost confidence and wasn't comfortably sailing anymore. It became slightly stressful and I had to keep all my attention on not letting anything bad happen. There wasn't too much wind and I am comfortable with up to 25 knots from the racing days, but it just wasn't smooth and I felt like I was barely making any headway. The next time I went out I only used the Mainsail to just simplify the experience and it went pretty good, but I still felt like I wasn't getting the most out of sailing close hauled. After a few more trips I kept coming to the same conclusion: My boat doesn't like sailing close hauled. The sail ket going slack and I lost all my speed and then it would catch and heel the boat over. It would also become almost impossible to trim in the sail no matter how hard I would pull on the sheet (so I would end up with the sail in a position for a close reach, but the boat close hauled). I know I'm not messing up my PoS because I've given myself a range of about 30 degrees to head up or downwind and it still felt like I was barely moving. So why is this happening? Is it my poor equipment (I only have a double pulley mainsheet setup and no boom vang)? Is it my lack of knowledge of the boat? Am I just overthinking this and should just continue on how I've been going?

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

It’s all about boom angle. You can’t effectively adjust that simply by trimming the sail. If you had a traveler with which to adjust the sail trim, you would see a world of difference.

 

[JohnShannon]

You might try reefing, if you have lots of wind it can be faster to have less sail up. A big flogging main doesn't result in speed.

 

[dlochner]

How old are the sails? If the sails are old and stretched out it is difficult to go to weather and the boat will heel more, especially as the wind pipes up.

 

[Mr. Dave]

Maybe you should find somebody with more experience, and more confidence, to go out with you someday when it's blowing hard, and let them help you figure it out, and help you regain your confidence, sounds like maybe you just got kinda spooked.

I'm learning this summer on a new (to me) 50 year old boat, and I keep going out when there's a lot more wind up than forecast (not on purpose!), and heeling way the F over, and getting beat up quite a bit sometimes, broke some stuff, too, but it's okay because I'm confident I can handle it safely, even if it's not elegant and I look like an idiot. But I'm learning about this boat every day, and having a lot of fun. And I'm not the only one out there learning, I can see people doing the same dumb shite that I am, some of it dumber, but keep at it, you'll find your groove again sooner or later.

You're trying to have fun, yea?

I once took 6 or 7 passes at getting my hook to set in a crowded anchorage, and some folks watching were grinning at my failures, but one dude raised a glass in my direction when I finally got a good set. I will forever respect that guy, he understood my efforts to get it right, and didn't hold it against me that I was still learning with grey in my beard.

To you, I raise a glass, Salud!

 

[higgs]

You might try reefing, if you have lots of wind it can be faster to have less sail up. A big flogging main doesn't result in speed.

He doesn't have reefing.

 

[HMT2]

My boat doesn’t point much more than 40 degrees apparent, and keep good headway, any tighter than 39-40;degrees and she acts like yours does. Sails could be a factor too. Some boats just don’t sail into the wind all that well.

 

[Benny17441]

Them small boats are harder to sail than the larger ones. They require more attention and frequent adjustments. I would say check the condition of the sails. It is almost impossible to sail close hauled with blown out sails.

 

[rgranger]

I added a traveler to my boat to overcome some of what you describe.

 

[Will Gilmore]

He doesn't have reefing.

His avatar shows a reef grommet.

Cole, you might post a few pictures of your sailing under the conditions you describe. Tie a couple of pieces of yarn on the upper shrouds just above or below the spreaders, so you can see the apparent wind angle.

Looking at the picture you are using for your avatar, you might tighten up your Cunningham a bit.

Where in NY are you? There are a few Mariner Class Association members in NY. Very similar to the daysailor. Surf City Yacht Club has a fleet and they do a lot of racing. Put on a mask and go talk to some of them, if you're nearby.

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[Mr Fox]

I have an O’day built Rhodes 19- pretty similar to the daysailor and I grew up racing and teaching on 420s. You don’t need a traveler on your boat, they beat well and are relatively fast, keep it simple at the beginning. You can get a vang later.

Make sure the main sheet blocks are the correct setup (check with D&R) D & R Marine so you are sure you have the mechanical advantage on the main that the boat was designed to have (May have been changed by previous owners).

What are you doing with your centerboard? If the sails fill once you head off and you are being rounded up, try a little less centerboard to move its center of effort towards the stern.

Make sure your sail is not baggy, keep it smooth and tight to begin with especially on a windy day (you can get loose on light days once you get into it more). So outhaul and Cunningham/downhaul tight.

You don’t need to go nuts on sheeting in the jib, a nice curve will help direct the airflow over the leeward side of the main.

The daysailor is a heavier, slower boat than a 420, which is an amazingly agile full on racing boat. Everything happens slower on the daysailor, so slow down your expectations a bit (she’s not gonna rocket away the second the sails catch wind like a 420 you actually have to wait for the speed to build). It will never perform anywhere close to a 420, that’s not the point of the daysailor, so go out with someone who knows the mariner/Rhodes-19/daysailor and enjoy the ride a bit. You’ve been racing a Ferrari for the past 2 years and you just bought an SUV, it’s going to be different.

 

[Cole07]

How old are the sails? If the sails are old and stretched out it is difficult to go to weather and the boat will heel more, especially as the wind pipes up.

The sails are just as old as the boat, which is from 1971, but from what I know it got no use for most of it's life. Sails are pretty crisp. Thanks for the info though.

 

[Cole07]

His avatar shows a reef grommet.

Cole, you might post a few pictures of your sailing under the conditions you describe. Tie a couple of pieces of yarn on the upper shrouds just above or below the spreaders, so you can see the apparent wind angle.

Looking at the picture you are using for your avatar, you might tighten up your Cunningham a bit.

Where in NY are you? There are a few Mariner Class Association members in NY. Very similar to the daysailor. Surf City Yacht Club has a fleet and they do a lot of racing. Put on a mask and go talk to some of them, if you're nearby.

-Will (Dragonfly)

Yeah, I think the Cunningham would play an important role. I will look into it.

 

[JohnShannon]

Cunningham is full on in heavy weather. It pulls the position of maximum draft forward. Outhaul should be full on also to flatten the sail as much as possible. Jib halyard tension should be high as well.

 

[Mr Fox]

Here’s a suggestion for some fun learning about your awesome new boat (yes O’days are awesome). Please forgive me if I state what is obvious to you, I’m just covering basics.

You are most likely pretty used to a 2 man crew; handling the tiller, main sheet and 2 jib sheets alone takes getting used to (and can be stressful on a blustery day). Soon you’ll be backing the jib for razor sharp tacks and winging it downwind, but cut yourself some slack, this is your first boat that’s not a high performance racer.

Start out with the main only (make sure there’s enough wind or it will get frustrating). Centerboard about 1/4 of the way down as with no jib the push from the main is closer to the stern, so you want the board back a bit to counter that (I actually never lower my Rhodes CB lower than that even with a jib).

Get moving on a reach, so the boat has speed. Trim in the sail as you head up (slow and smooth, not 420 style). Watch the luff in the main, once it starts to flutter bear off a bit. See where you’re at. Ease the main in the puffs to keep flat and maintain speed (you don’t have someone on the trapeze keeping you flat!)

Mess around with the CB position, see how it effects the tiller- you want to be putting as little input on it as possible, if you’re really having to yank it toward you to maintain course, you are effectively dragging a brake through the water and she won’t be going anywhere fast. Mess around a lot. Get fast with the main alone. When heading off make sure you simultaneously let out the main, she won’t turn quickly otherwise (unlike the 420 which will basically do anything the tiller asks before you’re done moving it).

Then add the jib and everything gets better. I would suggest having a second person at first. Tack and back the jib (release the jib sheet after bow has swung through the wind so it has a moment of pushing bow quickly off wind) before sheeting in on the new tack. This also helps keep your jib sheets from catching on the tabernacle on the mast. Later you can do both yourself (with a jam clear on the main preferably).

The bigger the boat, the more subtle the inputs and the further ahead you have to think. A daysailor may not be big to those who cruise, but coming from a 420 it is. The 420 reacts instantly- but you want to plan/start your movements in the daysailor 3 seconds ahead of what you are used to, make sense?

Sorry so long winded- take what’s useful and skip the rest.

 

[Cole07]

Here’s a suggestion for some fun learning about your awesome new boat (yes O’days are awesome). Please forgive me if I state what is obvious to you, I’m just covering basics.

You are most likely pretty used to a 2 man crew; handling the tiller, main sheet and 2 jib sheets alone takes getting used to (and can be stressful on a blustery day). Soon you’ll be backing the jib for razor sharp tacks and winging it downwind, but cut yourself some slack, this is your first boat that’s not a high performance racer.

Start out with the main only (make sure there’s enough wind or it will get frustrating). Centerboard about 1/4 of the way down as with no jib the push from the main is closer to the stern, so you want the board back a bit to counter that (I actually never lower my Rhodes CB lower than that even with a jib).

Get moving on a reach, so the boat has speed. Trim in the sail as you head up (slow and smooth, not 420 style). Watch the luff in the main, once it starts to flutter bear off a bit. See where you’re at. Ease the main in the puffs to keep flat and maintain speed (you don’t have someone on the trapeze keeping you flat!)

Mess around with the CB position, see how it effects the tiller- you want to be putting as little input on it as possible, if you’re really having to yank it toward you to maintain course, you are effectively dragging a brake through the water and she won’t be going anywhere fast. Mess around a lot. Get fast with the main alone. When heading off make sure you simultaneously let out the main, she won’t turn quickly otherwise (unlike the 420 which will basically do anything the tiller asks before you’re done moving it).

Then add the jib and everything gets better. I would suggest having a second person at first. Tack and back the jib (release the jib sheet after bow has swung through the wind so it has a moment of pushing bow quickly off wind) before sheeting in on the new tack. This also helps keep your jib sheets from catching on the tabernacle on the mast. Later you can do both yourself (with a jam clear on the main preferably).

The bigger the boat, the more subtle the inputs and the further ahead you have to think. A daysailor may not be big to those who cruise, but coming from a 420 it is. The 420 reacts instantly- but you want to plan/start your movements in the daysailor 3 seconds ahead of what you are used to, make sense?

Sorry so long winded- take what’s useful and skip the rest.

Thank you so much. I never knew how much the centerboard could have an influence on performance and your advice is great. I really appreciate everyone's responses, they have been really enlightening and have shown me how much I have been doing wrong.

 

[Mr Fox]

This illustrates the effect well. Doing things wrong is learning and particularly fun on a boat (so long as no one's hurt).

2 things I always remember after screwing something up or not doing it as well as I could.

1- The goal is progress, not perfection.

2- “I am not discouraged, because every wrong attempt discarded is another step forward.” – Thomas Edison

 

[dbk0630]

Hi Cole,

From your avatar it looks like you have a Daysailer II, which was the first boat I owned. The centerboard uphaul/downhaul setup on the DS2 is a weak point of the design. And its possible that the board when fully extended is past vertical, so yes as Mr Fox suggests, adjusting the board toward the stern may well help... as would making sure the main halyard and cunningham are tight.

I made a couple of modifications to my DS2 that also helped me feel in more control. First I modified my setup by replacing the main sheet block on the boom with a 55mm ratchet block w/becket. And second I relocated the jib sheet cleats from the coamings to the centerboard trunk... specifically, I replaced the old cleats on the jib cars with 40mm ratchet blocks and mounted cam cleats with fairleads to the centerboard trunk. Adding the ratchets made controlling the boat much easier... and having the cleats on the CB made single handling less stressy.

There is a pretty active Daysailer forum (forum.daysailer.org) and a facebook group as well... so you might post your questions on one/both of those as well. The DS2 is a great choice... enjoy it!

Dave.