Sailing Trends: Your Perception?

[Jackdaw]

Rather than speculate, I'd like to ask some questions to the assembly to do some research ... Putting yourself in the role of a 25-year old, if you did not have a family or friend with a yacht, how would you go for a sail to try it out? @Jackdaw constantly writes about his lake sailing association that invites people for a race or training, but what about the rest of you. I know that my town has a training club, including adult classes, but does little to pair graduates with boat owners. If I was an interested younger person in your town and did not know someone, how would I 'get on a boat' this summer? Would taking a 6-week class in summer be a requirement to sail? Have you looked on your club web page, or called the yacht club?

Good points. If you end up on our club's web site, its pretty easy to tell what we do, and that we want YOU to come sail!

Fun fact, CREW club members have almost the exact same rights at the club as boatowners. That's intentional. We NEED them, so we make them feel like their real members, because they are. At WYC there are some 200 boat-owning members, and probably 800 crew memberships. Probably 1/2 of them are under 35, and over 1/2 of them are women.

 

[Parsons]

Thanks, but @Jackdaw can't do it all. Hence my call for a conversation and questions.

Our club was concerned to allow crew members, called Social members, too many rights because people vote for their interests. Our leadership has seen other clubs were the social membership exceeded boat owners, so they stopped maintaining the docks and marina. Social members are real interested in the bar and restaurant, but not spending money on dredging. How did you get over that?

 

[Jackdaw]

Thanks, but @Jackdaw can't do it all. Hence my call for a conversation and questions.

Our club was concerned to allow crew members, called Social members, too many rights because people vote for their interests. Our leadership has seen other clubs were the social membership exceeded boat owners, so they stopped maintaining the docks and marina. Social members are real interested in the bar and restaurant, but not spending money on dredging. How did you get over that?

We have three membership levels. Boatowners. Skipper (non-owner driver), and Crew. Beyond some things that Owners can do with the Clubhouse (like host larger non-sailing gatherings), the only other real difference is that only boatowners get voting rights.

We have lovely grounds, open 24x7x365 for all members. But no staffed bar, no pool. But free beer after races. If you're not into racing, the place wouldn't seem like nearly as much fun.

 

[JRT]

[QUOTE="SNIP - We cannot 'sell' sailing if it is exclusive, not welcoming, and expensive.[/QUOTE]

This is right on mark, I'd say a general grump unfriendly attitude is more normal then an open welcome one. Overall we are lucky we found such a welcoming marina with an active club and friendly caring owners to help us out. Sure it isn't the premium location or top notch condition but the friendly attitude is why we stayed and signed up for a 1 year slip.

Old fart attitude in hobbies is the number one problem. I returned to flying RC planes with my son 7 years ago and while most were very supportive to see a 6 year old flying and accepted his less then perfect and sometimes and bit wild flying style, others were not. Also in several case old fart attitudes were directed at him and I on more then one occasion that could have been approach totally different. If it happened one or two time fine but it was pretty consistent from a certain age range and got our club a very bad reputation. Fast forward to 3 years ago and 4 of us younger guys decided to run for club office and change the attitude. It has been a long road but we have made it a far friendlier club and membership is up 40%-50% in the past 2 years.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I think that Jackdaw hasn't quite explained that Minnesotans, particularly the residents of the Minneapolis-St Paul metro area take outdoor sports to an unusual level that simply isn't relatable to most of the rest of the country. I think it has something to do with the Viking ancestry. But from everything I've observed, these people take to the outdoors unlike any others. Just look at Jackdaw, who stretches a 6-week "summer" from ice-melt to freeze-up and grins about it the whole time! And he has a fiancé who is just as radical!

 

[Kings Gambit]

All this means in my opinion is that you have to sell memberships disproportionately to folks who will likely do little to enhance your own boating pleasure. Fixed costs of large clubs force this. You'll be talking to power boaters, beginning sailors who are boat-less or "between boats", and/or miscellaneous folks who don't really know why they've joined a yacht club except perhaps to meet new people, etc. At some point, someone among your new, friendly-loving members has to take a turn to run those cruises and serve as PRO's for those races, etc., and develop other on-the-water activities. If you can't recruit people who can do that; then you'll be doing it yourself or staying home, etc.

 

[Will Gilmore]

Just look at Jackdaw, who stretches a 6-week "summer" from ice-melt to freeze-up and grins about it the whole time!

Just because the lake is frozen doesn't mean sailing is over.

- Will (Dragonfly)

 

[BigEasy]

Our perspectives are definitely shaped by our own experiences from childhood and on. I grew up in a middle class family in a rural setting. Both of my parents worked. There was no expenses spared on education; that was the main focus. Otherwise, if we wanted something, we had to work for it, we weren't given anything. Believe me, I wanted everything, but I didn't get it. And, I certainly didn't hang around watching TV for several hours a day. Participated in sports for fun and didn't get lessons; we didn't have all stars, traveling teams, etc. I was exposed to boating as a kid and went fishing often on relatives boats. I opted to delay college for one year after high school and enlisted in the US Naval Air Reserve. Bought my first car myself and started college. My brother & I purchased a used Hobie cat one summer, while we worked, over summer break in college. That's when the sailing bug started. After college, I started as an associate engineer and my soon to be wife started as a teacher. We both drove clunker cars and an annual vacation for us was a weekend on the Gulf Coast in a motel! We saved every penny to buy a small house. Quite a contrast as compared to the mellanials who now work with me. So Scott, congratulations to you for raising a well educated and well grounded group of kids! Meanwhile I took sailing lessons from a local university sail training program & volunteered as crew when possible. At age 30, I bought a small boat that I used for fishing, trawling, & duck hunting. At 40, bought my first sailboat, a hunter 33.5. Self taught along with ASA training thru level 106. I never really did sailing clubs as I am not into racing; however, I am a member of the New Orleans power squadron. OK enough of my personal history! Point is that I grew up around power boats; however, I pursued an interest in sailing because I wanted to. And after lots of hard work & saving, I had the financial means to do it. Admittedly, I don't have a clue as to number of individuals who pursued sailing independently, like myself, as compared to the number sailors that started in a club environment. I do think that because the manor in which most mellanials were raised, sailing clubs can and should be an important avenue to foster the sailing lifestyle. However, I have remained in touch with the sailing school in Pensacola where I did ASA courses & chartered cruising boats. There are still many individuals & couples from all generations that want to pursue sailing as a hobby and do so independently. The entry level classes at the Pensacola location remain booked year round. Maybe there is hope after all!

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Our perspectives are definitely shaped by our own experiences from childhood and on.

Well, that is absolutely true. While I may have had more opportunities dropped in my lap because of my parents relative wealth, I think what you describe is something we both had in common. We had more freedom to choose our interests and we had more freedom for imagination. I certainly read a lot when I was young. I remember reading Dove early in the 70's, while I was still impressionable about what I wanted to pursue in life.
What I have described as being the fault of our generation is that many of us created a highly structured and organized world for our kids, the millennials, which possibly has stifled imagination. We talk about it even now ... the need to introduce kids into sailing via clubs and classes, etc.
I don't really remember how my interests were spawned, but I do remember that they were mostly spawned organically, without a lot of influence or pressure. For instance, I loved playing baseball and I played in organized leagues for as long as I can remember up until college. But I also played sandlot ball at least as much (until about high school). We had a neighborhood full of kids that just arrived at the local field every day in the summer to play. Parents didn't have to shoo us out the door, we just went, and we were never in any hurry and had very little motivation, except for hunger, to go back home in the evening. Somehow, that changed with the kids we raised. We seemed to have to organize every activity for them. I don't know exactly how that evolved, but that's on us.
With regard to Rick's original post, I think that sailing and the lifestyle it offers, fits very well with our younger generations. They definitely think a lot more about reducing their environmental footprint and sailing is a great way to go. I don't think it is really necessary to worry about promotion. There are so many young adults whom are choosing alternative lifestyles, writing about it, and finding ways to finance it. They'll come to sailing on their own and we can stop wringing our hands over it!

 

[TomY]

"With regard to Rick's original post, I think that sailing and the lifestyle it offers, fits very well with our younger generations. They definitely think a lot more about reducing their environmental footprint and sailing is a great way to go. I don't think it is really necessary to worry about promotion. There are so many young adults whom are choosing alternative lifestyles, writing about it, and finding ways to finance it. They'll come to sailing on their own and we can stop wringing our hands over it!"


What Scott said above, sums it up for me. If there is a trend to channel millennials, sailing should go for the lifestyle, small footprint, of sailing(but that won't result in an exodus). Sailing won't die, and it won't become mainstream with the next gen.

For an actual local trend, this is how new boat ownership has been panning out in my small harbor by some younger owners I know.

All I'll tell you about the owners is that they are all male ( a couple brother owners), and in their mid 20's. All, I believe went through typical local sailing programs. Most started sailing with their families.

Instead, I'll tell you a little about their sailboats:

26' 1968 O'day Outlaw (sons). Solid boat, classic plastic style. A racer in it's day, still a good sailer. Monetary value $0.

Greenwich 24' 196? (Allied then Cape Dory?) Solid boat, traditional style, solid, heavy, decent sailer. Good little sailer. Monetary value $0.

Pearson 26 Older version mid 60's. Nice lines, solid, good sailer. Monetary value $0.

C+C 27, early 70's. This is the biggest. Nice boat and pretty well cared for so it was worth$. Monetary value $4k(primarily because this boat has a good A4 inboard) Bought by 2 milleny's for a cruise down the coast(they worked and saved for trip).

Hunter 25 maybe 70's. Good shape, owned by brothers that saved a little for it. Value $2-3K

J-22 Newest. Nice boat! Father works in marine industry and probably got it for a deal. Monetary value (not sure, guess $6k) Great sailer, this will always appeal to young people.

My observations on this: Free boats, that's a new trend(sailable but not sale-able). And these are big boats these kids own! I paid 7k for my first real sailboat, a 23'er. And I was in my mid 30's. Nobody owned boats this size when I was in my 20's, that I knew.

This trend is new, and outrageous-boats for free! If you can figure it out(probably will fly for locals only with roots and family in working harbors), Free boats, are not free. Mooring, storage, in and out, etc, is about 500 to 1,000 k around here for these boats. These kids do all the work on these boats, they can't afford not to.

Except for the C+C, none of these kids are looking to cruise these boats - coastal seasonal sailors, all. They have jobs and no plans for a cruising life.

These boats are just the ones I know about because I know most of the kids around here. Our harbor is the smallest of 3 harbors within 2 miles of here. Obviously, these are not the only cases of millennials getting a pretty big jump on sailing their own boat.

 

[Jackdaw]

I think that Jackdaw hasn't quite explained that Minnesotans, particularly the residents of the Minneapolis-St Paul metro area take outdoor sports to an unusual level that simply isn't relatable to most of the rest of the country. I think it has something to do with the Viking ancestry. But from everything I've observed, these people take to the outdoors unlike any others. Just look at Jackdaw, who stretches a 6-week "summer" from ice-melt to freeze-up and grins about it the whole time! And he has a fiancé who is just as radical!

Yea, the only water that makes for bad sailing is ice. While I'm never quite made it, my goal has always to have the the boat in the water and sail on December 1st. If I ever do that, the boat will technically only be out of the water for the months of January, February, and March. Whoot Whoot! We always launch around the 2nd week of April.

It helps that the club encourages this type of zaniness, having the crane and water facilitates usable as long as people want to sail. I hear of arbitrary and mandatory 'pull out days' and I shake my head.

 

[Allowishish]

My experience with millennials is that they are not really joiners.
In fairness most of my friends and I are not either (mid 40's)

the Millennials do informal gatherings, ie. pub craws, cruiser (bicycle) rides and fun stuff like that. I do believe that sailing fits with some of the thought process and values of millenials but unless they are exposed previously to it or have an opportunity for a free/very cheap boat, I can see limiting factors to their involvement.