Sailing to Catalina Island ..

kimelmore · May 24, 2017

I prefer going to Two Harbors (the north end) and they always seem to have smaller moorings in close to the beach. Starting out in the early morning usually means you start the trip motoring (no wind) and in the later part of the day you can sail a good reach towards your destination. If you remain in the cabin on autopilot I suggest you keep a good watch for traffic. 20 ft. swells are very unusual, sounds like someone was exaggerating a bit. Keep a watch on the weather patterns and if you don't feel comfortable then don't go.

jeepbluetj · May 24, 2017

The weather in SoCal almost never changes fast. What Dallas Raines says is gonna be pretty close.

The very hardest thing about going to Catalina is picking up the mooring. In Avalon they're very close. Read the webpage if you've never done it before. Decent crew is extremely helpful, but if you need assistance the Harbor Patrol there will help you. (Tell em you're singlehanded or have never done it before. I find the folks at Two Harbors more friendly than Avalon)

It's not that far away - therefore the weather changes aren't going to be that much. My experience out of Dana Point it almost always picks up a bit mid channel. Long Beach gets closer to what the winds mid channel will be. A few times I've sailed out of King Harbor was kinda the same. There isn't any wind in the AM for the most part, so most trips over are motors for half to the entire way.

For MY boat (c-30) I'll sail if at all possible even in high winds. It's more comfortable and I've got better control . Motor only goes on if I've gotta go dead upwind (and wanna get there at a certain time) or there isn't any wind. Most of my trips _to_ the island were motoring because of lack of wind. Every now and then there's a great south wind that makes it a joy to sail there. First time I took my wife, we were at 6+ kts boatspeed the whole way over with steady 15k winds out of due south. But that's rare. From points north (Long Beach, King Harbor) the typical westerlies do allow a nice reach/close reach to the island, and a nice broad reach back. Back to Dana it's often a spinnaker for my boat as it's pretty close to DDW most of the time.

If you've got 20ft swells between Catalina and the mainland, I'd just stay on the island. That's pretty serious stuff. If it's out of the West, you won't even notice it at the major mooring spots. If you just gotta get to work pay for the weeks mooring, take the express or flyer and come back for your boat next weekend.

Pick a good weather window, and just go. You will likely motor the entire way out with the typical summer weather and have a fantastic sail back.

Only real weather caveat is if there's a big offshore off the mainland, it can make Avalon and to a bit lesser extent Isthmus cove a real horrible place to be. (deadly in some cases) - If that ever happens, you drop the mooring and sail around to the back side and wait for it to go away. i.e. Swells out of the E or NE are very unpleasant/dangerous. Almost never happens in the summer - it's more of a winter thing.

PM me if you want experienced crew or want to experience an Island run on my boat before you take yours.

Skipper · May 24, 2017

I've been sailing and power boating in the seas from Ventura to San Diego for 20 years, and I've never encounteted 20 foot swells at sea. You would have to have sustained 35 knot winds for that to develop, and conditions like that are rare here and would be notably forecast.

Best time to cross is in the morning, if you're on a powerboat. If you want to sail, you'll need the mid day and afternoon wind.
From MDR/LA/Redondo/Long Beach it's a stunningly easy sail. Exactly the right wind direction.
Just pick a day that NOAA says, "Wind west variable less than 10 knots, becoming west 10 knots in the afternoon". Which is very common. That's your sailing day.
Even if it's says gusts to 15 knots, don't sweat it.

Sailing is better than motor. More control, more stable. If you drop the sails instead of reefing, the boat will roll and yaw like a log.

justsomeguy · May 25, 2017

I've a friend who reminded me "they don't call it the Pacific for nothing".

BudGates · May 25, 2017

I agree with what everyone else has said. Two Harbors has a nice relaxing atmosphere where Avalon is more of a tourist trap. Picking up a mooring may indeed be the toughest part of the trip but it's no big deal. I was a rookie my first time and the wife was too sick to help so I basically single-handed it with out any problem.

I hate going over in the mornings because, like others have said, the wind is dead calm until mid day which means you'd be motoring almost the whole way.

I've seen 20 foot waves and, believe me, you don't want to even be motoring in weather like that on a Mac-25. It's likely that the Catalina Express would even be canceled under such conditions.

Jim 5757 · May 25, 2017

Oh boy... 20ft swells in a Mac 25. I bet that'd be one hell of a ride for sure! But to echo others, I'd much prefer sailing ( with appropriate reefing). Much more stable that way...

walt · May 25, 2017

Is it possible to avoid fog on that trip or is there always some chance.. and if so, what is the fog plan?

Kings Gambit · May 25, 2017

shermanator said:
I plan on sailing my 25 ft MacGregor from LA to Catalina Island during the summer. From what i've heard the best time window for travel are early in the AM.
Quick question for those with more experience in these situations , should an unexpected weather conditions arise making things complicated than expected, is it best to lower the sails and motor the rest of the way? I understand a typical situation to motor is when the wind dies.. But at any other point would you consider lowering the sails and relying on just the motor? Besides taxing in/out of your dock, etc.
From what i've been told a 9.9 HP outboard is typical for my boat size and length. I've heard anything above that is "too much power". Is this true? Never gone over 9.9hp yet but was just curious...

Someone told me a story once when they were sailing back to LA from Catalina they had 20 ft swells (bad weather), and didn't even bother with the sails. They stayed in the cabin and motored on autopilot all the way back to the port. Same sailboat as mine.
As far as everything else - VHF radio, flares, safety equipment, etc. All covered.

The course from the LA gate to Two Harbors is 210 deg magnetic; i.e., southwest. Summer afternoon winds typically are southwesterly. So, most of the time there is no straight-line sailing from San Pedro to Two Harbors. You might tack your way across in the afternoon winds in the 10 to 15-kt range, but I don't think you'd find it a pleasant trip. Most of the time we motor over in the morning when the wind and seas are down and then sail home on the afternoon breeze. If, as skipper said, the winds are westerly, e.g., 270 to 280 deg T, then you might get to sail close-hauled from San Pedro ending up a mile or two southeast of destination, whence you can then motor up to Two Harbors in the lee of the lsland, etc. I don't know much about your boat, but if you're feeling overpowered and cannot control the boat, then dropping sails and motoring might be the best action. As mentioned, however, sudden (i.e., dramatic) changes in weather during summer hardly ever happen, although wind advisories (SCAs) can and do appear without much forecast. Winter is different. Winter storms can bring 9 to 11 ft seas to the San Pedro Channel; possibly higher, but only rarely. I've seen 10-ft long-period swells out there in June but they are also uncommon. That said, poor cruise planning can lead anyone into uncomfortable, even hazardous, situations. If you do your due diligence you probably will not face the kinds of situations you describe.

Alan Gomes · May 25, 2017

Kings Gambit said:
The course from the LA gate to Two Harbors is 210 deg magnetic; i.e., southwest. Summer afternoon winds typically are southwesterly. So, most of the time there is no straight-line sailing from San Pedro to Two Harbors. You might tack your way across in the afternoon winds in the 15-kt range, but I don't think you'd find it a pleasant trip. Most of the time we motor over in the morning when the wind and seas are down and then sail home on the afternoon breeze. If, as skipper said, the winds are westerly, e.g., 270 to 280 deg T, then you might get to sail close-hauled from San Pedro ending up a mile or two southeast of destination, whence you can then motor up to Two Harbors in the lee of the lsland, etc. I don't know much about your boat, but if you're feeling overpowered and cannot control the boat, then dropping sails and motoring might be the best action. As mentioned, however, sudden (i.e., dramatic) changes in weather during summer hardly ever happen, although wind advisories (SCAs) can and do appear without much forecast. Winter is different. Winter storms can bring 9 to 11 ft seas to the San Pedro Channel; possibly higher, but only rarely. I've seen 10-ft long-period swells out there in June but they are also uncommon. That said, poor cruise planning can lead anyone into uncomfortable, even hazardous, situations. If you do your due diligence you probably will not face the kinds of situations you describe.

I agree with much of this. However, I sail out of San Pedro and go to the Isthmus all the time, and in the prevailing weather I can typically lay the Isthmus without a problem.
Also, the 20' wave/swell claim made earlier is pure bunk. I check the NOAA forecast frequently and 10' would be quite unusual, much less 20'. I do recall one trip I made from Isthmus to L.A. light in about 35 knots with maybe 11' seas with breaking tops and that was bad enough. Even the Express boats were not running that day.

Rick D · May 25, 2017

Second what Kings and others have said. However, if you go, try to go during the week or a Friday to pick up a mooring. Forget inside Avalon on the weekend; it will be full. Thee may be moorings outside but they will be sloppy. If you just want to stay on the boat and have no desire to get off for supplies or entertainment, try Hen Rock by Long Point. Lots of moorings there. Also a good anchorage IF you don't foul on the kelp. Otherwise, I would recommend Isthmus Cove. They have a "string line" which rarely fills, near the beach. It is basically mooring pins and floats attached to a long rope and stern lines, so you can get a lot of boats in there. It is also near the beach. When I had a 26' and 27' boat, we used that a lot. It's also near the beach, so the kids love the location. Anchoring can be problematic. If you want to try, go near the camp grounds on the east side of the harbor. Know that it can be deep, kelp can foul, and if in close, you'll need a stern anchor. The harbor patrol in Avalon is on channel 12 and all others are 09. Don't call until you are at the harbor. Be sure to be candid and let them know it is your first time. I hope to post a photo of the string line and a link to some detail on mooring pick up. The string line is the small buoys nearest to the beach this side of the pier at Isthmus Cove:
https://www.google.com/search?q=str...AUICigB&biw=1536&bih=725#imgrc=s8ddwn64MJehKM:
http://www.sailorschoice.com/Catalina/cat-tips.htm

Skipper · May 25, 2017

Kings Gambit said:
The course from the LA gate to Two Harbors is 210 deg magnetic; i.e., southwest. Summer afternoon winds typically are southwesterly. So, most of the time there is no straight-line sailing from San Pedro to Two Harbors. You might tack your way across in the afternoon winds in the 15-kt range, but I don't think you'd find it a pleasant trip. Most of the time we motor over in the morning when the wind and seas are down and then sail home on the afternoon breeze. If, as skipper said, the winds are westerly, e.g., 270 to 280 deg T, then you might get to sail close-hauled from San Pedro ending up a mile or two southeast of destination, whence you can then motor up to Two Harbors in the lee of the lsland, etc.

If he's going to Two Harbors.
He didn't say. Nor which harbor he's in, just "LA".
I assumed he meant sailing to Avalon, which is a great shot from San Pedro, and on the beam from MDR/Redondo. If westerly as you said. Our prevailing is westerly down here in OC, including to Catalina, which is irritating at times when you're trying to get to Isthmus Harbor before sundown.

Kings Gambit · May 25, 2017

Alan Gomes said:
I agree with much of this. However, I sail out of San Pedro and go to the Isthmus all the time, and in the prevailing weather I can typically lay the Isthmus without a problem.

I question that. Here's a wind record for the San Pedro Channel, afternoon of July 26, 2015, for example. The strongest wind of ca. 10-11 kt is from the WSW; course is approx. 224 deg T (210 M); at 6 knots boat speed your apparent wind angle would be 32 deg on a true direction of 273; at 5 kt it would be 34 deg. I cannot generally sail to that in the Bavaria; but maybe your Ericson can. However, at a true direction of 255 your apparent wind angle would be 13 deg; essentially on the nose, which is where I've seen it most of my times going over there!!

Yr M D Hr Min Dir m/s
2015 07 26 11 30 263 5.3
2015 07 26 11 40 255 5.5
2015 07 26 11 50 254 5.2
2015 07 26 12 00 277 4.2
2015 07 26 12 10 273 2.5
2015 07 26 12 20 263 1.4
2015 07 26 12 30 270 1.8
2015 07 26 12 40 299 2.8
2015 07 26 12 50 346 4.2
2015 07 26 13 00 341 3.7
2015 07 26 13 10 333 3.8
2015 07 26 13 20 317 4.2
2015 07 26 13 30 306 5.5
2015 07 26 13 40 309 4.6
2015 07 26 13 50 325 2.4
2015 07 26 14 00 298 3.2
2015 07 26 14 10 257 4.3
2015 07 26 14 20 254 4.0
2015 07 26 14 30 243 3.4
2015 07 26 14 40 245 2.7
2015 07 26 14 50 235 2.0
2015 07 26 15 00 245 2.1

jeepbluetj · May 25, 2017

walt said:
Is it possible to avoid fog on that trip or is there always some chance.. and if so, what is the fog plan?

The weather report is generally pretty correct. Heck, it's SoCal, if there was any kind of weather the TV news folks would have their panties in a bunch. If there's no fog when you leave and you leave early enough, you'll likely not hit any fog at all.

Otherwise: one prolonged blast followed by two short blasts every two minutes (if under sail), keep a sharp lookout, radar/ais if you have it. maybe turn a GPS on, and cross the shipping lanes at right angles and as fast as you can.

One of the first times I ever sailed to Catalina was in light fog - about 1 mile visibility. Only nav instrument on the boat was a single compass.

I've never had a problem finding a mooring at Avalon on a Thursday or even Friday early afternoon. I've never gone on Saturday for just that reason. Two harbors has many more moorings and some room to anchor. There's other coves all over the front side if you don't want civilization. I've been to White's many times if I don't want to get off the boat.

Kings Gambit · May 25, 2017

Skipper said:
If he's going to Two Harbors.
He didn't say. Nor which harbor he's in, just "LA".
I assumed he meant sailing to Avalon, which is a great shot from San Pedro, and on the beam from MDR/Redondo. If westerly as you said. Our prevailing is westerly down here in OC, including to Catalina, which is irritating at times when you're trying to get to Isthmus Harbor before sundown.

Yeah--your chances of sailing, and very nice sailing, are far better heading from the LA gate to Avalon, which bears about 20 deg lower.

jon hansen · May 25, 2017

one prolonged blast followed by two short blasts every two minutes (if under sail),

up here on the inland seas one long and two short is a quick hello from one vessel to another, usually your buddy.
is this another rule that has changed that i am unaware of ?

Alan Gomes · May 25, 2017

Kings Gambit said:
I question that. Here's a wind record for the San Pedro Channel, afternoon of July 26, 2015, for example. The strongest wind of ca. 10-11 kt is from the WSW; course is approx. 224 deg T (210 M); at 6 knots boat speed your apparent wind angle would be 32 deg on a true direction of 273; at 5 kt it would be 34 deg. I cannot generally sail to that in the Bavaria; but maybe your Ericson can. However, at a true direction of 255 your apparent wind angle would be 13 deg; essentially on the nose, which is where I've seen it most of my times going over there!!

Yr M D Hr Min Dir m/s
2015 07 26 11 30 263 5.3
2015 07 26 11 40 255 5.5
2015 07 26 11 50 254 5.2
2015 07 26 12 00 277 4.2
2015 07 26 12 10 273 2.5
2015 07 26 12 20 263 1.4
2015 07 26 12 30 270 1.8
2015 07 26 12 40 299 2.8
2015 07 26 12 50 346 4.2
2015 07 26 13 00 341 3.7
2015 07 26 13 10 333 3.8
2015 07 26 13 20 317 4.2
2015 07 26 13 30 306 5.5
2015 07 26 13 40 309 4.6
2015 07 26 13 50 325 2.4
2015 07 26 14 00 298 3.2
2015 07 26 14 10 257 4.3
2015 07 26 14 20 254 4.0
2015 07 26 14 30 243 3.4
2015 07 26 14 40 245 2.7
2015 07 26 14 50 235 2.0
2015 07 26 15 00 245 2.1

Well, KG, I'll just summarize the data from my log book (just for the Ericson 26 that I've owned since 2012).
I make frequent trips to Catalina, not all of them to the Isthmus. (I also frequent Avalon and, to a lesser extent, Cat Harbor.) But I have made 19 trips to the Isthmus specifically on this boat. (Realize that when I leave in the late morning the wind has often not come up, which explains some of the trips where I begin by motoring and finish by sailing.)

Of these:
3 trips where I sailed 100% of the way, laid the Isthmus on one tack.
4 trips where I sailed the last half or more of the way, laid the Isthmus on one tack.
1 trip where I sailed 2/3 of the way but was only able to point within 10-deg. of the Isthmus
2 trips where I motored but clearly could have sailed because there was sufficient wind from the correct direction to lay the Isthmus on one tack. (Don't rag on me for this, guys! In one case I was in the process of swapping out a traveler, and in the other I felt sick and just wanted to get there!)
5 trips where I motored the entire way because there was no wind.
4 trips where there was wind but I motored the entire way because the wind was on the nose.

Well, there you have it!
--Alan

jssailem · May 25, 2017

Sherman
This sounds like a first trip adventure in your boat. IS this the case?
See you joined last year. Hope you have had the boat out a few times in the basin and perhaps ventured out along the coast for a ways to get the feel of your boat and tested your ability to sail in the ocean.
This sailing stuff is about skill building.
The information above comes from sailors who have gone there and done that.
A first trip always gives me butterflies, but having tested my boat and knowing my skills I venture out into the unknown and return happy for the adventure.
You mention that "everything else is covered..." Have you ever fired a flare in need or practice? Have you made successful VHF calls to the CG? Do you have all the local radio frequencies listed by the radio in case you need to call someone? Have you had the boat inspected this year by the Coast Guard Auxiliary? Have you attended an emergency at sea class offered in your local area? Have you talked with local boaters about their experience of sailing to the Islands over a beer or coffee?

None of these are required for your trip but they all contribute toward the safety of your journey.

Then again, Gilligan went out for a 3 hour tour and none of these were part of the story...

Have fun be safe and review what these other sailors have shared from your area.

jeepbluetj · May 25, 2017

jon hansen said:
one prolonged blast followed by two short blasts every two minutes (if under sail),

up here on the inland seas one long and two short is a quick hello from one vessel to another, usually your buddy.
is this another rule that has changed that i am unaware of ?

It's Rule 35 -- Sound Signals in Restricted Visibility. It's the same signal for inland and international waters.

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread.....

kimelmore · May 25, 2017

If I remember correctly, it took me a year and a half of owning my Catalina 30 before I was ready to venture over to the Island. And remember what Cap'n Ron says " what happens at sea stays at sea"