How did you do on the sailing skills quiz? Was it challenging? Did you learn something? Were there any answers you disagreed with? If you didn't participate yo can do so at these addresses: Beneteau owners: http://www.sailboatowners.com/contest/quiz.tpl?fno=40 Catalina owners: http://www.sailboatowners.com/contest/quiz.tpl?fno=20 Hunter owners: http://www.sailboatowners.com/contest/quiz.tpl?fno=0 Macgregor owners: http://www.sailboatowners.com/contest/quiz.tpl?fno=80 Oday owners: http://www.sailboatowners.com/contest/quiz.tpl?fno=60 All other sailboat owners: http://www.sailboatowners.com/contest/quiz.tpl?fno=40
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I missed the one on Mayday...
I thought an imminent threat to life raised a pan-pan to a Mayday, and reasoned that if the water was cold, the threat to life was imminent. But the quiz seems to have it right: mayday is reserved for imminent threat to the vessel as a whole.
I thought an imminent threat to life raised a pan-pan to a Mayday, and reasoned that if the water was cold, the threat to life was imminent. But the quiz seems to have it right: mayday is reserved for imminent threat to the vessel as a whole.
Question #7
Don't you need more information to determine who the stand on vessel is?? I always thought the size of the vessel, along with other factors (commercial/non-commercial, power/sail, etc) helped to determine right of way. If you had a 60' sportfishing boat trailing lines, wouldn't it have right of way over a small sailing dinghy that was easier to maneuver? Any thoughts out there?? Allen Schweitzer s/v Falstaff C-30 Hull# 632
Don't you need more information to determine who the stand on vessel is?? I always thought the size of the vessel, along with other factors (commercial/non-commercial, power/sail, etc) helped to determine right of way. If you had a 60' sportfishing boat trailing lines, wouldn't it have right of way over a small sailing dinghy that was easier to maneuver? Any thoughts out there?? Allen Schweitzer s/v Falstaff C-30 Hull# 632
Avoidance
Hi Allen: I give very little thought to right of way and think more in the line of avoidance. My primary sailing area is Pickwick Lake which is on the Tennessee River at the Tennessee Mississippi border. There are numerous marinas in the area in addition to commercial traffic, cigarette boats, ski-do's and the scariest of all, boats with "rent me" on the side. These, and I'll be nice, holiday boat renters, have little if any experience nor knowledge of marine laws, and probably don't care. Having a thought of who has the right of way is something I never really consider, I just try to keep out of their way, sail up or down, and that becomes a real task sometimes. I don't have it in front of me, but I believe that there is a clause that gives avoidance priority over right of way. Something like that anyway.
Hi Allen: I give very little thought to right of way and think more in the line of avoidance. My primary sailing area is Pickwick Lake which is on the Tennessee River at the Tennessee Mississippi border. There are numerous marinas in the area in addition to commercial traffic, cigarette boats, ski-do's and the scariest of all, boats with "rent me" on the side. These, and I'll be nice, holiday boat renters, have little if any experience nor knowledge of marine laws, and probably don't care. Having a thought of who has the right of way is something I never really consider, I just try to keep out of their way, sail up or down, and that becomes a real task sometimes. I don't have it in front of me, but I believe that there is a clause that gives avoidance priority over right of way. Something like that anyway.
Avoidance
I know what you mean. Last year I took the ASA certification and one of the questions was stated something like this: "you are under sail, you are on a collision course with a powerboat (I forget the tack - not relevant), are you the stand-on or give-way vessel. I underlined the words "collision course" and answered give way. Of course I was wrong according to the fine letter of the law, however I still argued the point. I would rather give way in this type of situation than stand on principal in Davey Jones locker!
I know what you mean. Last year I took the ASA certification and one of the questions was stated something like this: "you are under sail, you are on a collision course with a powerboat (I forget the tack - not relevant), are you the stand-on or give-way vessel. I underlined the words "collision course" and answered give way. Of course I was wrong according to the fine letter of the law, however I still argued the point. I would rather give way in this type of situation than stand on principal in Davey Jones locker!
Got That Right Shippy!!
The guy that wrote the question didn't own the boat. I'd rather dodge the accident than be right on paper. There have been a bunch of people killed over the years that had the right of way when it happened. I'd like to see it explained to the Coast Guard when you had an accident that could have been avoided, however, you had the right of way and didn't take evasive actions because of it.
The guy that wrote the question didn't own the boat. I'd rather dodge the accident than be right on paper. There have been a bunch of people killed over the years that had the right of way when it happened. I'd like to see it explained to the Coast Guard when you had an accident that could have been avoided, however, you had the right of way and didn't take evasive actions because of it.
Shippy is right!
when it comes to avoiding an accident stand on or give way has NO relevance. what if? what if the power boat plowing toward you is on auto pilot and unknowing to you the capt'n is lying dead of a heart attack on the deck?
when it comes to avoiding an accident stand on or give way has NO relevance. what if? what if the power boat plowing toward you is on auto pilot and unknowing to you the capt'n is lying dead of a heart attack on the deck?
Gary, question #7 seems to be messed up.
I said that the fishing boat has the right of way, so my boat is the give way vessel. The quiz said I was wrong, and then said I was the give way vessel. Thats what I said,,,,*o
I said that the fishing boat has the right of way, so my boat is the give way vessel. The quiz said I was wrong, and then said I was the give way vessel. Thats what I said,,,,*o
Good Seamanship Rule
Take it easy guys. The rules also include general provisions that say every boater has the legal obligation to do everything in their power to avoid a collision (The Good Seamanship Rule). You are correct in that there are a lot of boaters who don't know the rules of the road out there. To enter into a dangerous situation insisting on your "right of way" would be foolhardy. However, the other boater has a right to assume that YOU know the rules of the road and that you will act predictably in accordance with them in a close encounter. And from a legal standpoint, if a collision occurs and you did not follow the rules of the road, you could be found liable for substantial damages. My suggestion is know the rules and drive defensively. Gary Wyngarden S/V Wanderlust H37.5
Take it easy guys. The rules also include general provisions that say every boater has the legal obligation to do everything in their power to avoid a collision (The Good Seamanship Rule). You are correct in that there are a lot of boaters who don't know the rules of the road out there. To enter into a dangerous situation insisting on your "right of way" would be foolhardy. However, the other boater has a right to assume that YOU know the rules of the road and that you will act predictably in accordance with them in a close encounter. And from a legal standpoint, if a collision occurs and you did not follow the rules of the road, you could be found liable for substantial damages. My suggestion is know the rules and drive defensively. Gary Wyngarden S/V Wanderlust H37.5
Don't Know, Fred
I just took the quiz again and it gave me the correct answer which is that you would be the stand-on vessel. I'm not sure what you saw. Gary Wyngarden S/V Wanderlust H37.5
I just took the quiz again and it gave me the correct answer which is that you would be the stand-on vessel. I'm not sure what you saw. Gary Wyngarden S/V Wanderlust H37.5
Everyone is right, including Gary
Gary's question concerns which vessels are privileged and his answers are correct. The rest of you are discussing obligations without regard to privileges. Your answers would be correct for a different question. "Must the stand on vessel give way to avoid risk of a collision?...Yes Rule 7(a) Every vessel shall use all available means appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions to determine if risk of collision exists. If there is any doubt such risk shall be deemed to exist. Rule 8(f) A vessel, the passage of which is not to be impeded remains fully obliged to comply with the rules of this part when the two vessels are approaching one another so as to involve risk of collision.
Gary's question concerns which vessels are privileged and his answers are correct. The rest of you are discussing obligations without regard to privileges. Your answers would be correct for a different question. "Must the stand on vessel give way to avoid risk of a collision?...Yes Rule 7(a) Every vessel shall use all available means appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions to determine if risk of collision exists. If there is any doubt such risk shall be deemed to exist. Rule 8(f) A vessel, the passage of which is not to be impeded remains fully obliged to comply with the rules of this part when the two vessels are approaching one another so as to involve risk of collision.
Technically yes
I hear you, and I argued it to the ASA instructor until I was blue in the face (I wanted that extra point!) The word collision course was enough to make me give way. If they had used any other word, I would have answered differently.
I hear you, and I argued it to the ASA instructor until I was blue in the face (I wanted that extra point!) The word collision course was enough to make me give way. If they had used any other word, I would have answered differently.
Technically yes
I hear you, and I argued it to the ASA instructor until I was blue in the face (I wanted that extra point!) The word collision course was enough to make me give way. If they had used any other word, I would have answered differently.
I hear you, and I argued it to the ASA instructor until I was blue in the face (I wanted that extra point!) The word collision course was enough to make me give way. If they had used any other word, I would have answered differently.
Collision Course vs. Imminent Collision
Shippy, While I understand your interpretation of the question, the term collision course does not necessarily mean close proximity or imminent collision, and that is why you could not convince your instrutor. Thinking of it another way, unless you are on a collision course there is no right of way issue at all. Now I know that close call is a subjective matter, but we do know that the stand on boat is not violated unless they have to adjust based on the proximity of the give way boat. Tha said, I prefer to allow plenty off room. I am also amazed at how often a stand on boat confuses a situation by not doing what they are supposed to do. Sometimes they even make themselves the give way boat while complicating their own ability to give way. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
Shippy, While I understand your interpretation of the question, the term collision course does not necessarily mean close proximity or imminent collision, and that is why you could not convince your instrutor. Thinking of it another way, unless you are on a collision course there is no right of way issue at all. Now I know that close call is a subjective matter, but we do know that the stand on boat is not violated unless they have to adjust based on the proximity of the give way boat. Tha said, I prefer to allow plenty off room. I am also amazed at how often a stand on boat confuses a situation by not doing what they are supposed to do. Sometimes they even make themselves the give way boat while complicating their own ability to give way. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
Dan J. I agree 100% plus some thoughts
As I was making my way up through the the thread comments, I was trying to compose a reply to clearly indicate the difference between a collision course and an imminent collision - Dan J. you did this very clearly. The point was well made that the regulations apply specifically when there is risk of collision. Vessels must follow the rules if there is risk of collision and a vessel only departs from the rules to avoid "immediate danger" (Rule 2). On the other hand Rule 7 (Risk of Colllision) is the starting point to establishing what rules you should then follow. The rules which follow (8 to 19) then tell you what to do if there is risk of collision in specific situations eg. Narrow Channels, Overtaking, Head-on, Crossing Situations. Restricted Visibility etc. Note - quoting rule numbers may make it sound complicated - it isn't - reference material is readily available (and often free) that summarize the rules for small craft ie. all of us - (usually only a few pages explain all that is normally necessary), The rules are always covered in basic boating courses which I highly recommend. I would add to the general discussion that the rules require that the burdened (giveway) vessel make an early and obvious course change to show that they are staying clear. I would agree that giving way to everyone is a better response than giving way to no one. However, as Dan J said it can cause confusion - particulary if there are several boats in the area. If you are the stand-on vessel and are expected to hold your course, and you wish to give way, make your course change early and obviously. To illustrate this, years ago I actually had a 600' ship change course for me (believe it or not) and then resume its original heading in the middle of Lake Huron. It was the give way vessel as I was under sail with no engine on. I knew it was on a collision bearing (constant bearing) about 2 to 3 miles away (moving fast - probably 6 to 8 minutes to intersecting my course) and I was intending to gradually change course to pass behind. I just didn't do it soon enough. Now, whether it be a 30,000 ton ship or the dolt in the jet ski - if I intend to give up my rights, I do it early so everyone knows what is going on. Sorry about rambling on - I do think this is an important topic.
As I was making my way up through the the thread comments, I was trying to compose a reply to clearly indicate the difference between a collision course and an imminent collision - Dan J. you did this very clearly. The point was well made that the regulations apply specifically when there is risk of collision. Vessels must follow the rules if there is risk of collision and a vessel only departs from the rules to avoid "immediate danger" (Rule 2). On the other hand Rule 7 (Risk of Colllision) is the starting point to establishing what rules you should then follow. The rules which follow (8 to 19) then tell you what to do if there is risk of collision in specific situations eg. Narrow Channels, Overtaking, Head-on, Crossing Situations. Restricted Visibility etc. Note - quoting rule numbers may make it sound complicated - it isn't - reference material is readily available (and often free) that summarize the rules for small craft ie. all of us - (usually only a few pages explain all that is normally necessary), The rules are always covered in basic boating courses which I highly recommend. I would add to the general discussion that the rules require that the burdened (giveway) vessel make an early and obvious course change to show that they are staying clear. I would agree that giving way to everyone is a better response than giving way to no one. However, as Dan J said it can cause confusion - particulary if there are several boats in the area. If you are the stand-on vessel and are expected to hold your course, and you wish to give way, make your course change early and obviously. To illustrate this, years ago I actually had a 600' ship change course for me (believe it or not) and then resume its original heading in the middle of Lake Huron. It was the give way vessel as I was under sail with no engine on. I knew it was on a collision bearing (constant bearing) about 2 to 3 miles away (moving fast - probably 6 to 8 minutes to intersecting my course) and I was intending to gradually change course to pass behind. I just didn't do it soon enough. Now, whether it be a 30,000 ton ship or the dolt in the jet ski - if I intend to give up my rights, I do it early so everyone knows what is going on. Sorry about rambling on - I do think this is an important topic.
Final results
Final results for the sailing skills quiz ending April 4, 2004: How many questions did you answer correctly in the sailing skills quiz? 6 - 7 34% 8 - 10 28% 4 - 5 25% 1 - 3 14% 1,571 owners responding
Final results for the sailing skills quiz ending April 4, 2004: How many questions did you answer correctly in the sailing skills quiz? 6 - 7 34% 8 - 10 28% 4 - 5 25% 1 - 3 14% 1,571 owners responding
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