Sailing San Diego Bay this week

Nov 19, 2008
2,129
Catalina C-22 MK-II Parrish, FL
Bob, the guy finally returned my call today, he ended up giving the boat away to someone. It turned out to be a huge hassle he said, even had the boat impounded and he just got tired of dealing with it. Too bad, and someone got a heck of a deal!

Don
 
May 11, 2014
156
Catalina 22 Lake Pleasant, AZ
Bob, the guy finally returned my call today, he ended up giving the boat away to someone. It turned out to be a huge hassle he said, even had the boat impounded and he just got tired of dealing with it. Too bad, and someone got a heck of a deal! Don

Hi Don: thanks for closing the loop on that one. Someone got themselves a new project! I'm still trying to find a good solution to my problem. Having trouble finding a welder that will do the job, and trying to find a good, reasonable rigger that can help. I need to take an afternoon and make some phone calls, but that's hard for me to do. Maybe Friday. At worst, I'll tow it back to Phoenix and do the repairs locally. I've gotten some quotes for a replacement and another quote coming later this week.
 
Nov 19, 2008
2,129
Catalina C-22 MK-II Parrish, FL
Bob, are all your stays OK, or did some get snapped? Depending on both our schedules, I have a complete set of rigging from my "New Design" that we could measure, or have a local rigger use as a pattern. They are all off the boat, so they would be easy to measure. My schedule is a bit tight, leaving for the C-22 Nationals this coming Tuesday morning.

Don
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Hi Brian: totally agree that finger pointing between the contractor and the Port of San Diego is likely; but, at the end of the day, I hold the port accountable for what occurs on their property. They have a daily presence at the boat ramp and construction site, and being in the business of operating ports and boat ramps, they should know what everyone else in the industry knows - low hanging powerlines at a boat ramp used by sailboats can be lethal.
Glad no-one got hurt. Not to pour salt on a wound, but personally I would (and do) take total responsibly for wires and other hazards while moving my boat on the hard, in particular with the stick up. Its not like the wire moved; you drove into it. To me whether or not it was 'high enough' is secondary. Asking the taxpayers of San Diego to pay for your mistake seems wrong.
 
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May 11, 2014
156
Catalina 22 Lake Pleasant, AZ
Bob, are all your stays OK, or did some get snapped? Depending on both our schedules, I have a complete set of rigging from my "New Design" that we could measure, or have a local rigger use as a pattern. They are all off the boat, so they would be easy to measure. My schedule is a bit tight, leaving for the C-22 Nationals this coming Tuesday morning. Don
Hi Don: thank you for the offer - that's very generous. Yes, all of my standing rigging - except the backstay - parted when I struck the overhead wires. Quite messy.

I was planning to come out to San Diego this weekend; but, have been hammered with work and have't made any progress on finding a good welder or rigger. So, I'll be staying put in Phoenix this weekend.

My owners manual gives lengths for shrouds and stays - I would assume those are accurate? And, I may - depending - go with the Catalina Direct kit - all the standing rigging for the boat ready to go for about $400. Let me know if either is a bad idea.

Have fun at the Nationals Don - safe travels. And thanks again.

- Bob
 
Nov 19, 2008
2,129
Catalina C-22 MK-II Parrish, FL
The big West Marine store on Pt Loma on Rosecrans is my favorite rigging shop in San Diego. They use 316 1/8" stainless cable, and I found their prices very competitive. Might check them out with a copy of the stay lengths from the owners manual for your model.
But $400 for all the stays from Catalina Direct ain't a bad price either. I plan on making a stop there on the way north to the Nationals. When you get her all back together, check out Chula Vista Marina, there office is on the north east corner of the harbor. Slip rental gives you access to the world class RV park with their pool and hot tub. Just tell the Harbor Master, Mike Sullivan I sent you. Great guy, and my favorite marina in San Diego. I've stayed for a month at Pier-32, and nice facilities, but bugs,(as you found out), no restaurant in the evenings, and I wouldn't leave the marina for a walk after the sun went down.

Too bad I'll miss you this trip. Get her fixed up and we'll have a raft-up in the fall when we get back in town.

Don
 
Feb 17, 2006
5,274
Lancer 27PS MCB Camp Pendleton KF6BL
Glad no-one got hurt. Not to pour salt on a wound, but personally I would (and do) take total responsibly for wires and other hazards while moving my boat on the hard, in particular with the stick up. Its not like the wire moved; you drove into it. To me whether or not it was 'high enough' is secondary. Asking the taxpayers of San Diego to pay for your mistake seems wrong.
In this case I would think because he was told to raise the mast before approaching the ramp, the personnel at the office would have also told him about the overhead lines. So, he is not at fault for hitting the wires. Maybe he "should" have looked and that would have been the prudent thing to do. If he was warned or told to raise the mast after passing under the wires, then yes, he would be at fault. However, we only have his side of the story and I am not doubting his version. It would have been good to hear the other side of the story also.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
In this case I would think because he was told to raise the mast before approaching the ramp, the personnel at the office would have also told him about the overhead lines. So, he is not at fault for hitting the wires. Maybe he "should" have looked and that would have been the prudent thing to do. If he was warned or told to raise the mast after passing under the wires, then yes, he would be at fault. However, we only have his side of the story and I am not doubting his version. It would have been good to hear the other side of the story also.
Brian,

You're totally right about one thing; we don't know the whole story.

But jeez, I would feel really silly about hitting an overhead line with my mast while trailering through a lot/ramp, and then going back to the people in the office and saying 'you didn't tell me about the power lines!' I just take that as part of my job, no matter if they are supposed to be there or not. I've seen enough mixed up crap near ramps to never let my guard down.

One thing for sure; its a bummer. Going all that way and having it come crashing down when you can smell the salt water. That sucks.
 
May 11, 2014
156
Catalina 22 Lake Pleasant, AZ
Jackdaw and Brian: Here's a little more color around the incident, given your interest.

- Long day of preparation and driving to reach the marina in San Diego from Phoenix, after a very long and hard work week. I was tired when I got there.
- I had signed up for "mast-up" storage at the marina. I arrived at the marina toward the end of the day when marina staff we're closing up and going home. They helped get me situated, assigned a slip to me for the night, and provided me with the needed keys for the marina gates. Before getting back in my car to drive the short distance to the boat ramp, I specifically asked whether there were any overhead electrical wires to worry about. It was an after thought to even ask this - it seemed like an unnecessary question given that I am paying for "mast-up storage" - store and launch the boat with the "mast-up", right? But, I asked. The marina person said there was one wire that is overhead and is there to temporarily service construction work on a building near the boat ramp. He asked what kind of boat I had, I told him, and he said no worries - it'll be no problem.
- I had never been there before and lacked local knowledge. I relied too much on the information from well intended, but misinformed, local resources. In hindsight, they weren't very knowledgeable about trailer-sailer requirements ... I thought they should know a little more about that. But, whatever.
- I drove to the ramp area, parked, stepped the mast, and rigged my boat. I launched, motored the short distance to slip, walked back, retrieved my car and boat trailer, and parked them in the marina's parking lot. I had dinner, messed about on the boat for a bit greatly enjoying the scenery, the smells of the bay, and the cool breezes - 30-degrees cooler than Phoenix! I was looking forward to a night of great sleeping aboard the boat after a long day.
- I didn't sleep a wink - worst night in 20-years. We don't have them in Phoenix, not in those numbers, and so I wasn't prepared; but, MOSQUITOES were everywhere, all night long. They faded away shortly after dawn, and I then grabbed an hour or two of sleep. I woke up late, skipped breakfast (no coffee!), and set-about finishing up paperwork with the marina and retrieving my boat. I motored a bit in the bay (it was beautiful!); but, turned back toward the dock in short order - I had an appointment back in Phoenix that evening, and needed to be on my way. I docked, retrieved the boat onto the trailer, and slowly drove through the busy parking lot (the ramp is in a popular county park) to the marina storage yard a few hundred feet away.
- I did not even think about overhead wiring. I was looking everywhere but up - in a busy parking lot with traffic, its not common to get attacked from above! The signage for the wires did nothing to get my attention - they weren't located where anyone would even see them driving under the wires at that spot. There were no colorful streamers on the wires to draw attention to them (although I could see where there used to be lengths of caution tape hanging from the wire at some point in the past).
- I struck the wires, which toppled my mast, ripping out the mast bolt holes at the base of the map, bending the mast step and mast bolt, parting all of my standing rigging except the backstay. Great support from the local police, and the electric company arrived in about an hour or so, and de-energized the circuit.

Now, all of that said, and to Jackdaw's point, I accept responsibility for striking the wires and I am accountable. I was tired, not on my game, and I didn't see the wires - I didn't even think to look for them. And, just as I hold myself accountable, I expect others to be accountable for their actions. In this case, there is at least culpability on behalf of the marina and the boat ramp operated by the county:

- the marina rents out mast-up storage ... but there is no way to get to the ramp with the mast-up. That doesn't even make sense.
- the marina personnel gave me bad information about the overhead clearance. Yes, I should have personally verified it; but, did not.
- the marina personnel were not very well informed about conditions on the adjacent county property, whose boat ramp they have their customers use. I should have verified the local situation myself.
- Everyone in the boating industry knows that overhead wires and boat ramps are a formula for disaster. I did some web research on electrical codes, and from what I can tell that wiring was no where near code requirements. it is negligent to operate a boat ramp and install temporary, low-hanging, poorly marked, overhead wiring. Our local boatyard / sailboat shop in Phoenix is run by a great guy - Tom Erickson - who has lost three (3) customers to electrocution over the past several years, when their masts struck overhead wires. The police officer told me it wasn't the first time this has happened. The operator of the boat ramp - San Diego County in this case - is negligent, in my opinion. They need to fix it before someone is killed. I expect accountability from them.

The reality is that I likely will not pursue reimbursement from San Diego, or even from my insurance company - I'll suck it up, mostly because I don't have the time to waste to pursue it with either. Likely high PIA factor with both. But, I feel well within my rights to hold the county accountable for the unsafe conditions that they have created.

If, on my next trip there, I WILL raise holy hell with the county if those conditions continue to exist. It's not okay to allow a hazard like that to remain unabated. The next occurrence could hurt or kill someone.

And, I am understandably not happy with the marina. Nice well intended people; but, they need to be accountable for their services. It is not okay to rent "mast up storage" and not have any way to launch with the mast-up. That's ridiculous. I will be finding another marina.

So, that's the rest of the story, or at least most of it. I've learned from this experience. And, I am re-focused on getting my boat back together and enjoying a weekend or two on San Diego Bay before summer is done.

- Bob
 
Nov 19, 2008
2,129
Catalina C-22 MK-II Parrish, FL
Bob, We pulled our boat several days ago at Chula Vista, and decided to take a little detour to Pier-32 and the ramp on our way home. I seen the wire's you hit, they are still up, and there is absolutely no way to get from the "mast up" storage area to the ramp and avoid overhead wires. I say no signs on any of the wire crossings.

Just wondering, when we kept our boat at Pier-32, they required $500K liability insurance vs the normal $300K that is standard coverage with most insurance companies.

Don
 

azguy

.
Aug 23, 2012
337
Catalina 22 Lake Pleasant
I'd pursue them for restitution, "mast up, is mast up storage" and wires should be clearly marked both with signs and streamers....IMHO.

But keep in mind Marina personnel as you put it are $10 hr, city workers that probably have a MMJ card...
 
Nov 19, 2008
2,129
Catalina C-22 MK-II Parrish, FL
I'd pursue them for restitution, "mast up, is mast up storage" and wires should be clearly marked both with signs and streamers....IMHO.

But keep in mind Marina personnel as you put it are $10 hr, city workers that probably have a MMJ card...
Worst than that, Pier-32 is a private marina next to a public ramp. Ain't no such thing in San Diego as a "poor city worker" :cussing:

Don
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Bob,

Thanks for the detail. Like I said, its a total bummer!

I've only been to Pier32 once. I didn't remember a ramp, then it occurred to me that Pepper Park is nearby, but a separate city-owned facility that you have to drive to (1/3 mile??). I'm not sure how or why a private marina could (or want to) offer an end-to-end service (stick up storage and launch) where they are responsible for everything when you actually leave their property and use a city ramp to launch.

I took a quick look at their web site and they offer a 'store, launch, and stay' service. I can't see any contract you signed but it seems unlikely that they would warrant that you would (always) be able to drive over to Pepper stick-up and launch. Their pictures might give you the impression you could do this, but they don't say it anywhere.

Likewise for the City and the park. I guessing the ramp and nearby areas were wire-free, but how far are they expected to maintain that? You have to go onto a surface road to get between the two locations; hard to expect them to be responsible for that.

No doubt you got bum advice. But sadly that happens all the time.
 
May 11, 2014
156
Catalina 22 Lake Pleasant, AZ
So this afternoon I got an email indicating that another C-22 hit these same wires ... "burned shroud and mast from the power line ... His mast didn't fall, he slammed on the brakes when the fire showered down on his boat and vehicle. Same place as yours. No one was hurt." That is at least the 3rd time that sailboat masts made contact with those wires.

Irrespective of "fault", this is a dangerous condition that, if left unmitigated, may result in injury or death to someone. I am pushing on the Port of San Diego to fix this problem either by eliminating the wiring, raising the wiring to at least comply with code, and / or implementing effective warnings and signage.
 
Mar 26, 2012
227
Catalina 22 Pflugerville
In my opinion you would have been justified to take the city to task from the get go for this dangerous condition they created, no need to add other incidents to build a case against them. The hazard exists, and by their lack of corrective action, they are demonstrating at the very least, an indifference to anyone who might be affected. While I'm not a fan of settling things in the court system, this is exactly the type of situation that our courts should be addressing. And since there are now multiple incidents, maybe some kind of class action is indicated at this point?
At any rate, good luck and we wish you a successful outcome!