Sailing on a long reach

Status
Not open for further replies.

Igetit

.
May 26, 2011
85
Hunter 270 Lake Monroe, Indiana
Disclaimer: This will probably sound silly to those of you experienced sailors, but I've only owned my boat for a month now, and received practically no instruction from the dealer. I have an 84 Oday 222.

I was out last night in light wind, heading downwind, and realized the backstay has a clip that attaches to the boom. Releasing the clip allows the boom to travel further abeam, but I had never disconnected this before.
I was able to get several more knots since the sails could fill more fully, but I noticed the mast was flexing slightly (bow to stern) when I encountered the occasional wake.
Is this the intended use of that clip on the backstay, or was I abusing my mast and rigging?
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,336
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
The clip is probably intended to keep the boom from dropping when the sail in down, often referred to as a topping lift. When under sail on any point, it should be removed. All masts flex a bit; the object is to ensure your rigging is properly adjusted such that the shrouds don't sag on either tack. Fore and aft supports should be adjusted to maintain whatever rake ( bend in the mast) is spec'ed for your boat - maybe someone here can tell you?
 
Jan 24, 2005
4,881
Oday 222 Dighton, Ma.
Disclaimer: This will probably sound silly to those of you experienced sailors, but I've only owned my boat for a month now, and received practically no instruction from the dealer. I have an 84 Oday 222.

I was out last night in light wind, heading downwind, and realized the backstay has a clip that attaches to the boom. Releasing the clip allows the boom to travel further abeam, but I had never disconnected this before.
I was able to get several more knots since the sails could fill more fully, but I noticed the mast was flexing slightly (bow to stern) when I encountered the occasional wake.
Is this the intended use of that clip on the backstay, or was I abusing my mast and rigging?
That clip is only used to hold the boom from falling down when the sail is not up. As soon as you raise the sail, you need to unclip that pig tail from the end of the boom. Does your mast have external halyards? My mast has halyards inside the mast, or what they call internal halyards. Also, I have a topping lift that holds the back of the boom up. The cable for this topping lift comes down from the top of the mast. This type of topping lift is more favorable than the pig tail on the back stay because it allows the boom the freedom to swing side to side.
I'm not sure of what's going on with your mast unless the forestay or backstay is too loose.
 

Igetit

.
May 26, 2011
85
Hunter 270 Lake Monroe, Indiana
When under sail on any point, it should be removed.
As soon as you raise the sail, you need to unclip that pig tail from the end of the boom.
Noted. Can't believe I still didn't know something so basic after several weeks with this thing.

Joe, my halyards are external. And Don, I'm getting ready to haul the boat out for some other repairs, and will be tuning the standing rigging when it goes back in the water.

THANKS SO MUCH for the help guys.
 

jimmyb

.
Feb 12, 2010
231
Precison 165 NA
While the boat is out, pick up a book on sailing instuction and you will find points of sail and where in general your boom should be when sailing on these points. Points of sail will be from closest to the wind -close hauled, close reach, beam reach, broad reach and running. In the order above your boom should be generaly inline with the boat with the main sheet in when close hauled, 1/4 out, 1/2 out 3/4 out and all the way out on the main when running. This again is a generalization but certainly you do NOT want that boom tied in to your boat in any manner when underway. You will have no way to depower the boat. Especially if you are on the wrong point of sail with the boom over the boat. BAD things will happen!

jimmyb
 
Jan 24, 2005
4,881
Oday 222 Dighton, Ma.
Noted. Can't believe I still didn't know something so basic after several weeks with this thing.

Joe, my halyards are external. And Don, I'm getting ready to haul the boat out for some other repairs, and will be tuning the standing rigging when it goes back in the water.

THANKS SO MUCH for the help guys.
I figured that your boat had external halyards when you mentioned the pig tail on your backstay. I would look into converting it to a different type of topping lift or maybe a boom kicker. Boom kickers are OK but it just means more set up time. Always stick with 1/8" stays on that boat and the chainplates should last. Anything heavier than 1/8" will cause the chainplate L shaped brackets on the bulkhead to break. Good luck with the boat.
Joe
 
May 6, 2011
28
Oday 222 trailered... Sheridan, AR
Joe... Did your 222 come with internal halyards or did you convert it? I would like to go internal halyards if possible... J.
 
Jan 24, 2005
4,881
Oday 222 Dighton, Ma.
Joe... Did your 222 come with internal halyards or did you convert it? I would like to go internal halyards if possible... J.
Red,
My boat came with a Z-Spar mast and boom which had internal halyards in the mast and three control lines in the boom.
I don't see why you couldn't convert your mast over to internal halyards. All you need is the halyard exit plate covers, two Aluminum cleats, and two open clam cleats if you have a mast winch. The clam cleats need to be a little out of line with each halyard as it exits the mast and goes to the horn cleat. Each clam cleat will snub off the halyard when you get the sail raised, and allow you to remove the wraps off the winch and make fast to the horn cleat. You should be able to use the same winch for both halyards. I noticed that at least one O'Day 222 had a winch on both sides of the mast with an exit plate on each side of the mast. I really don't think that this is necessary but this was the way that the spar manufacturer set it up before they figured out a way to make it work with one winch.
My mast has only one winch and the two exit plates are on the same side of the mast with the winch.

My original mast came with a cheap cast Aluminum Tabernacle with single a sheave attached to the base of it for the Jib halyard and I hated it with a passion. The halyard would kink up and prevent me from getting my Gennie down and I hated having to pull up on the halyard from the bottom of the mast. After I lost my mast, I had the rigger at Rig-Rite, install a stainless steel hinged tabernacle and cut an exit hole in the mast for the Jib Halyard above the mast winch. Today I have a CDI Furler and I only use the Jib halyard for my Gin Pole, but it made a big difference when I had to raise my Gennie before I got the furler.

You can buy a Jib sheave block made by Dwyer and cut a hole in your mast to receive it.
Your mast sheave needs to protrude at least 3/4" inside your mast to have the clearance inside for the halyard.

Internal halyards can sometimes break the wires going to your steaming light so you really need to take that in consideration. It shouldn't bother the anchor light and coax wire though as long as they're taped together every couple of feet and are secured out of the path of the halyards.
Here's some pics of my set up. I had a rigger do mine. I don't know if I would tackle a job like that, but I did replace my Jib halyard block with involved cutting a larger square hole in my mast to make it fit and drilling and tapping the mast for machine screws to hold it in place.

In the pics, the white halyard with green flecks= the main halyard and the clam cleat for this halyard is located just under that exit plate along with the upper horn cleat above the mast winch.

The Jib halyard = white with red flecks. The clam cleat for it is just under the exit plate and the horn cleat for this halyard is just below the goose neck fitting. You can see in the picture that the clam cleats are just a little out of line with the halyards, in relation to the exits plates and horn cleats. When you let the halyard off you do want them getting caught in the clam cleats, yet there is always enough slack in the halyard after it has the tension on it, to insert it into the clam cleat.
I hope that this info can get you started in the right direction. I love this set up and I also prefer doing all my halyard raising/lowering and reefing right at the mast.
Joe
 

Attachments

Jan 6, 2010
1,520
I,

As a new boat owner, you're in the same boat as a new tennis player.

There are two rules of thought on learning a new sport.

1. You can bumble thru it as you go along with the frustration, problems and damage. This is the least enjoyable method.

2. Take a sailing course and first sail with experienced people on your boat first. Offer them their favorite beer or food.

If you have a girlfriend or wife, bad experiences from the beginning can ruin your whole dream pal, Ive seen divorce from this.

Remember, sailing is the same as flying sidways. Would you take up an airplane before you learn to fly? Rember, it's the enjoyment in learning and the confidence built that makes the difference.

There is a chart in Chapman's Piloting, that I print for beginners to keep on their boat, put it in plastic and keep in the cockpit. It's a great quick reference and with time you will be able to apply this to your boat.

It shows sail sets on a 360 degree circular overhead view that speaks a thousand words. Here it is:


CR
 

Attachments

Igetit

.
May 26, 2011
85
Hunter 270 Lake Monroe, Indiana
Thanks Ron. I agree with you regarding the two approaches, which is why the first person I took sailing was a guy who attended a military prep academy where sailing instruction was part of the curriculum. He has sailed many times since, but was apparently not familiar enough with the rigging on my particular boat to notice.
I have a lot of power boating experience and I'm familiar with the body of water I use, just wanted to make sure I was "doing it right". And I have enough experience with aviation to know that pilots always conduct a pre-flight inspection of the craft, and use checklists at critical milestones in the trip. I plan on modifying the one on this site and using it in a similar manner.
The points of sail chart I have seen, and is the reason I suspected the clip on the boom was intended to be released, I just wanted to confirm.
I bought the boat during Memorial Day weekend, and the dealer was swamped by everyone trying to get in the water at the same time. I should have insisted they run through the mast stepping procedure with me, but the mechanic who performed the delivery briefing talked through the sequence, and said it was simple enough I could handle it. This is where the backstay clip would probably have been discussed.
Fortunately I've only experience one brief gust where it seemed like the boat was at risk of being over-powered, and my wife was the first to raise an eyebrow. I told her about my "discovery" the other night and subsequent confirmation by the members of the forum that I know how to prevent that now. She was pleased. I am still collecting info on sailing lessons in my area though. Thanks again for the input.
 
May 6, 2011
28
Oday 222 trailered... Sheridan, AR
(Trinkka)... Joe, thanks for sharing your pictures and information regarding internal halyards. you have taught me a lot with your response to postings. You make both dissatisfied and well as highly motivated to modify my boat. (Red Ryder)... J.
 

ruidh

.
Oct 1, 2007
227
Oday 23 Manhasset Bay, LI
Thanks Ron. I agree with you regarding the two approaches, which is why the first person I took sailing was a guy who attended a military prep academy where sailing instruction was part of the curriculum. He has sailed many times since, but was apparently not familiar enough with the rigging on my particular boat to notice.
I had some sailing experience when I got my O23, but I still took a three day sailing course. It's the little things you forget that can tend to bite you. The course was useful for me in that I learned a proper man overboard drill and learned how to drop and pick up my mooring under sail. I hardly ever use my outboard.

The point of sail charts show you sailing downwind, but I avoid it. I notice that the big, bad racing boats don't sail directly downwind on a downwind leg, They go on a long reach and gibe periodically. Sailing directly down wind opens you up to the chance of an accidental and unplanned gibe with your mainsheet all the way out, you can get some huge forces if that thing comes across the boat with a wind shift.
 
Jan 24, 2005
4,881
Oday 222 Dighton, Ma.
(Trinkka)... Joe, thanks for sharing your pictures and information regarding internal halyards. you have taught me a lot with your response to postings. You make both dissatisfied and well as highly motivated to modify my boat. (Red Ryder)... J.
Red,
Don't be afraid to make the necessary changes to your boat that can make the sailing experience easier and more enjoyable for you. I started making the changes to my boat before I took delivery of my boat and was in the factory being built. After I picked up my boat from the dealer, I had to figure out where to install the winches and tracks on the combings. I also cut the hatch cover over the head and added some hinges to it so it would lay flat on the mattress and not against my back when I was using the head. Then I started drilling more holes and adding other things that I needed on that boat.
A lot of guys are afraid to do these things on their boat. Maybe they believe that they will get more money for the boat if they leave everything the way it came stock, but not me. I bought my boat so I could use it and I won't be happy until I get it the way I want it.
So if you want to make changes in your boat, I say go for it as long as it will work for you. In the words of one of my favorite backwoods buckskin heroes Davey Crockett; "Be sure you're right, then go ahead."
 
Oct 2, 2008
1,424
Island Packet 31 Brunswick, Ga
Red Ryder said:
Joe... Did your 222 come with internal halyards or did you convert it? I would like to go internal halyards if possible... J.
I wouldn't want internal halyards as how can u inspect them if they are inside? what is the advantage of having them inside?
 
Oct 2, 2008
1,424
Island Packet 31 Brunswick, Ga
Igetit said:
Thanks Ron. I agree with you regarding the two approaches, which is why the first person I took sailing was a guy who attended a military prep academy where sailing instruction was part of the curriculum. He has sailed many times since, but was apparently not familiar enough with the rigging on my particular boat to notice.
I have a lot of power boating experience and I'm familiar with the body of water I use, just wanted to make sure I was "doing it right". And I have enough experience with aviation to know that pilots always conduct a pre-flight inspection of the craft, and use checklists at critical milestones in the trip. I plan on modifying the one on this site and using it in a similar manner.
The points of sail chart I have seen, and is the reason I suspected the clip on the boom was intended to be released, I just wanted to confirm.
I bought the boat during Memorial Day weekend, and the dealer was swamped by everyone trying to get in the water at the same time. I should have insisted they run through the mast stepping procedure with me, but the mechanic who performed the delivery briefing talked through the sequence, and said it was simple enough I could handle it. This is where the backstay clip would probably have been discussed.
Fortunately I've only experience one brief gust where it seemed like the boat was at risk of being over-powered, and my wife was the first to raise an eyebrow. I told her about my "discovery" the other night and subsequent confirmation by the members of the forum that I know how to prevent that now. She was pleased. I am still collecting info on sailing lessons in my area though. Thanks again for the input.
I heard that seamanship was simple, and that there were only three rules:
1. Keep the water outside the boat.
2. Keep the people inside the boat.
3. Keep the boat off the land.
 

Sail32

.
Jun 23, 2011
9
Pearson 323 Mystic
Sailing on a broad reach is faster than sailing directly downwind, which is why racers prefer it.

If your mast is designed for exterior halyards, you are better off leaving them be. Typically, ext halyards run over two sheaves at the top of the mast of a smaller diameter than the single sheave on an interior halyard. If you simply feed your halyard through the mast and use one sheave, you double the load that sheave sees, while forcing the halyard 180 deg around a smaller diameter. Not good for the sheave, not good for the halyard.
 
  • Like
Likes: SurfaceStAug
Jun 3, 2004
269
Oday and Catalina O'Day 25 and Catalina 30 Milwaukee
Don't worry about those small mistakes. We have all made plenty of them plus some big ones. By the way, my pigtail mistake was always on the other end (forgetting to attach it when I dropped the main). Anyhow, look through the archives of this site for the 222 and you will find a lot of good information. The 222 is a great boat and there is a lot of 222 experience on this site. And if you have a question, don't feel timid about posting to this site. Everyone is happy to help out.

Good luck,

Dave
O'Day 25 (and former O'Day 222 owner)
 
Jan 24, 2005
4,881
Oday 222 Dighton, Ma.
Sailing on a broad reach is faster than sailing directly downwind, which is why racers prefer it.

If your mast is designed for exterior halyards, you are better off leaving them be. Typically, ext halyards run over two sheaves at the top of the mast of a smaller diameter than the single sheave on an interior halyard. If you simply feed your halyard through the mast and use one sheave, you double the load that sheave sees, while forcing the halyard 180 deg around a smaller diameter. Not good for the sheave, not good for the halyard.
That's an interesting point well taken. I have had to replace both my main halyard sheave and my Jib sheave block since I've owned my boat. With that said, I still favor the internal halyard system and boom control lines for my reefing, topping lift, and clew outhaul.
 
Nov 22, 2008
3,562
Endeavour 32 Portland, Maine
This will probably sound silly...
No it sounds dangerous and negligent. I don't want to be abusive here but the water, even a lake, can be a harsh and dangerous environment and you can die. You can also take with you people you love.

You have ZERO business being out in that boat with this level of knowledge. It's not the dealer's fault. The consumer world we live in has created the crazy mind set evident in your post.

There is even less excuse now that we have the Internet. Everything you need to know can be found on line although there is no substitute for personal instruction. You're making a good start with this post but PLEASE, PLEASE, learn SOMETHING before you get in the boat and endanger yourself and others.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.