Sailing in Soup

[Al Kenney]

Thick Pea Soup -Oooops No Radar

Sailing my brand new Catalina 350 from GWinters in Riverside, NJ to her home port in Atlantic Highlands, NJ. Left Riverside the day before Mothers Day 2003 in pea soup, thick pea soup!! Luckily had my friend Michael & hired Capt.Mike to sail w/me to Cape May. Picked up my friend & expert Captain, Gary in Cape May for the remainder of trip.The three of us overnighted in Cape May, left next morn for AC (again Pea Soup) Luckily had Gary & Michael on board. Gary knew if a boat was near just by looking at the ripples in water & knew how far away a boat was from us. Overnighted in AC, (could not even see the casinos, it was soooo thick). Left next morning for Brielle (again -pea soup). A boat following us had radar & kept us informed as to any dangers. We overnighted in Brielle, left in morn for Atl. Highlands (finally SUNSHINE!!!! & blowing west 25) Finally, great sailing & we brought her home in one piece w/no damage!! It was certainly a nail biting experience for our first time out. Had installed all the toys on the boat EXCEPT RADAR. Said I would never sail in fog. Wouldn't need it. Little did I know her first trip would be in pea soup. Will be installing radar next month! Thank you Capt. Mike, Michael & Gary. Couldn't have done it without them!!

 

[Chris Burti]

It is all about perspective, Stu

I realize that you are just posting Joe Higgens' comments, but I also assume that you are in agreement with the sentiments he expressed. While I don't really disagree with the general view that bells and whistles tend to be over-emphasized in the sailing media, I feel compelled to offer a counterpoint to the "Elitist" remarks.In 1970 I sailed to the Bahamas as crew aboard a 'rich' community college professor's 'yacht'(can you imagine how little he actually earned). It was a homebuilt wooden, gaff rigged, 24-foot center-boarder. Bowsprit and boomkin, spruce spars and real wooden hoops. Galvanized shrouds and stays, no winches whatsoever, hemp lines and canvas sails. We had an ancient RDF, a compass and a watch for navigational instruments. No other instruments, no VHF, no head, no galley, water in jugs for drinking/cooking only. The engine, a cantankerous third-hand Gray, was reserved for emergency use only...we sailed in and out of the slip and elsewhere (three days to make landfall at Great Isaac's from Fort Liquerdale...very little wind). It was one of the most thoroughly enjoyed cruises of my life.The Admiral and I now enjoy a Catalina 320 with most of the bells and whistles (except Radar heheheh, and that is far down on our wish list...we don't have a lot of fog or rocks around here). Do I recall my days sailing aboard Moku Maki with great fondness? You betcha. Would I like to go back to that kind of sailing on a regular basis? No way in Hades!We have been married for 30 years and in that time have worked our way up from Mac and Cheese every day at the end of the month, living in a $40 a month walk-up, to a comfortable existence. We paid for our own education (and are presently paying for the kids') We have owned a host of 'project' boats that essentially were someone else's cast-offs. We have restored our historic home with our own sweat and labor (now there is a never-ending project).The Admiral (never one to mince words) is quick to point out that we have had plenty of opportunity to work on boats...now it's time to go sailing. The bells and whistles really are not necessary for that...but they sure are fun to play with and make sailing easier and more enjoyable. Commitment is no dock queen either...she's not even winterized...just open the sea-cocks, slip the lines and "let's go". We still sail on a budget, though it is, admittedly, a bit more ample than in years past.So, Joe (Stu?) don't think ill of those of us that spoil ourselves a bit. We can remember when the old outhouse was replaced with a real indoor bathroom, or of living in enlisted military housing during the Korean war, of working as a teenager for the family's welfare instead of a comic book, of one set of new bargain basement school clothes in September and a new set of Church clothes at Easter. Some of us may have lived a side of life that many haven't ever really seen. Where we are now does not always reflect where we have been. Many of us are not elitists or think we are better than others, we know otherwise.Being blessed doesn't make you better, it merely increases your obligations.Oh! A post script for those who still truly love the traditional way of sailing. A number of years back, Ned decided that Moku Maki was a bit small. So he hauled her to his back yard, cut her in half and extended her to 36'. I understand that she still doesn't have a head or running water. Ned still lives with her (how could you 'own' a boat like that) and now sails her in the St. Petersburg, FL area. If you see them and want to be entertained with some fascinating (and true) seagoing yarns, try to raft up with them and pass on my best regards.Best Wishes and Fair Winds,Chris

 

[Wanabe A. Sailor]

Know Your Headings

Had a 20' AquaSport I/O in Kingston, Jamaica in 1981. Was enroute several miles from The Royal Jamaica Yacht Club to the Kingston Harbor Inlet one night when the peasoup set down. Knew the heading so followed the compass and went slow and straight. Almost reached the inlet when I came across a returning boat that was lost. I did a 180 and had him follow me back to the Club. That was enough for one night. No GPS in those days and nobody's VHF worked, if they had one.

 

[John]

Alert and Calm

This is a situation where-in the novice (and I remember when)tends to panic and not trust his navigation instruments. 1. Reduce speed. 2. Post a lookout/have a fog signaling  device ready. 3. Plot your position. 4. Maintain a safe course and speed. 5. Believe in your compass.Years ago before GPS we were returning to Long Beach from Catalina Island with friends who were ahead of us on their own boat. Soon we were in a coastal fog bank with about 25 yards visibility about a mile from the harbor entrance. We maintained visual contact (barely) with our boddy boat ahead of us. Suddenly the woman on our buddy boat let out a blood curdeling scream. A giant freighter loomed about 30 yards ahead of us. We put our tillers hard to port and passed down the portside of the freighter within 10 yards. Thank god it was anchored in the commercial anchorage area outside the breakwater.Be safe. Catch you down stream. John.

 

[Ernest F. Brodie, Sr.]

Sailing blind

About 3 years ago, my wife and children bought me a hand held GPS for my birthday. I couldn't wait to try it on the boat and see how it worked.As I was checking various points on the GPS and observing its accuracy as well as how it worked, my wife stated that I would never really have a need to use it. To her, it was just another toy for grown men. After all, we sailed in familiar waters, never adventuring in to the unknown, never out for more than 3 hours.At about 3:00pm in the after noon, as I came about to head home, on an all too familiar route, I found myself going head on into the thickest pea soup fog that I have ever witnessed. It came in so fast, that by the time I had taken down all of the sails, I had lost all bearing as to where I was. After panic had taken its moment with me, I realized that I had the GPS and that the way back to the marina was stored in its memory. As I started to motor back, following the route marked out on the GPS, my wife was determined that I was going in the wrong direction. After slowly motoring a ways, I realized how accurate the GPS was. My wife then realized that if I had followed her directions, we would have run aground. As we continued to motor and sound our horn, we eventually motored out of the fog right at the marina. From then on, I always take my GPS with me when I go sailing. After all, who knows when the next unexpected fog will roll in.

 

[Bob]

Fog on the Chesapeake

I have been sailing Fantasea for a little over 10 years now, and she was not the best equiped boat on earth when I got her. Oh, she had a VHF, a fathometer, a speed log, the compass worked, and a portable LORAN reciever stashed away somewhere on board, but no bottom coutouring plotters, GPS or radar. On my budget, those things were dreams.The entrance to Hampton Roads, Virginia, is a pretty busy place, and the few fogs we have don't slow things down much. So getting caught outside in a thick fog one morning sort of pegged my attention meter. I knew the compass was good as I had recently boxed it and I had recalculated my deviation card. The old Yanmar would have been all the fog warning sound producing signal anyone ever needed, but it decided it needed rest more than I did at the time, so I was sailing in. Actually, that is a benefit as you can hear things a lot clearer. By using a fairly new chart to get water depths and my compass and speed log to steer by I managed to get Fantasea (and us) into some protected water and out of the way of the entire US Navy, who I am sure was entering/exiting Hampton Roads at the same time I was sailing in. Would a RADAR, GPS, bottom contouring forward looking depth plotter, etc have helped? Heck yeah! But using the tools at hand, trusting my compass, knowing my boat and putting a lot of faith in the big navigator in the sky brought us in just as surely as if we had been on the aircraft carrier that entered Hampton Roads the same time we did.

 

[Marty B.]

GPS & a Radar Reflector

My Buddi Roy and I sail out of Long Beach Harbor where BIG TRAFFIC is the norm...We have alot of fog & it's scary as hell sailing these waters with huge ships silently ready to cut u in half without a scream being heard..lol..so...we have a GPS and mark the lighthouse entrance to the harbor..then the main channel to our slip and then the slip itself...Haven't been caught out there yet but if we do we'll hoist our radar reflector so they can see us and pray alot as we use the trusty GPS to limp home.....Scary thought isn't it???

 

[Howard]

No Big Deal, my foot!

37% thought it was no big deal! Well perhaps not if your experience is on a lake. Sailors who like me sail in a small boat on high commercial traffic waters such as the Straits of Juan de Fuca/Puget Sound (San Francisco's Golden Gate is another and there are plenty more) know that container ships, oil tankers, Aircraft Carriers etc. moving at 20kts, can't see us on radar and even if they could would not be able to do much about it! It's not the fog I fear but what it hides. People who say don't go out in it are right, except it comes up quickly out of nowhere and if you're en-route from say the San Juan Islands to Port Townsend only a mere 25 n/miles, that can be a long, nerve wracking journey. Especially if the wind is blowing at 25kts too. Yes, that's right wind and fog.

 

[Bruce]

Down and Dirty

Caught in unknown water...a bay at the mouth of a major river opening out to the sea, several miles wide full of reefs above and below...really requires some local knowledge with the added feature of heavy river current...I saw IT coming fast...had time to establish position visually...Only solution to avoid crash and burn..drop anchor. Take time to establish possible routes out of the minefield into a clear channel using radar, GPS, and charts.Still too dangerous. Radar/GPS do little to show those pointy rocks underneath.Wait for fog to lift..getting dark in 3 hours and home is 2. Anchor location is exposed so overnight too risky.My way out was SEATOW...thank heavens I subscribed. This is not an advert, just real life. Cost me $350 for the boat to find me in the fog and lead me out of the area and home...all in 50 yd visability.Safe and sound, but this experience changed my outlook on course selection in Maine in rocky bays and rivers first traveled...B

 

[Stu Jackson]

Chris, I Understand

Chris,I just posted that because it reminded me of what some people do: install all the bells and whistles and then never go out. I subscribe to the idea that safety is #1, but think that given a lot of the great stories in this thread, some safety came at the expense of experience first. Glad to hear they all made it back in one piece and can write about it.I'm not claiming things (improvements) aren't necessary, either. While Joe got his Loran, I got my simple Magellan GPS Blazer. No color. No maps. But I do have charts, and they have all the way-points marked on them, and the spreadsheet in the log book has each of them named and documented.I don't have radar. Sometimes wish I did, but given the conditions, could make it around where I need to go. I admire your experience, and have had the similar "life" conditions, no one gave it to us either. We did it the "old fashioned way," too. Enjoy and all the best,Stu

 

[Dan Jonas]

GPS

It will be interesting to see how the proliferation of GPS might change our thinking on Radar and fog over time. I suspect that before GPS, many would head for nearest shelter or safety when encountering fog, simply because finding your way is demanding and requires more than a little experience and its stressful.With the proliferation of GPS, I wonder how many just sail on knowing where they are and that they most likely will find their way home with incredible accuracy. As long as no one runs them down. From my perspective, I'd rather have radar and no GPS rather than the other way around.Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)

 

[rock20042]

old fashioned navigation

I agree that basic compass & chart navigation is the most important place to start, i've been in fog so thick that finding anything further than 50 feet would be a challenge. Fortunately, I had a basic handheld gps that helped me find my way home. Also helpful was my depth sounder as i made my way to the marina entrance - keeping a steady depth helps when you know the depth of the marina entrance. After about 3 times being caught (twice at night) in pea soup fog, I finally got radar. Much less exhausting, and a greater sense of security, but like all electronic navigation, you'd best know the basics because the electronics will invariably, eventually fail!

 

[Chris Burti]

Stu, you'll have to laugh.........................

I even rigged up an old laptop to an older Magellan XL3000. I just love to watch the boat icon move on the chart and seeing the updated ETA without doing it wrong four times in my head. But, the simple fact is that most of what I actually rely on is my compass and (now waterproof, too cool) paper chart. The gadgets do relieve some of the anxiety in foul weather.Best regards,

 

[Mike C]

Whistler?

Will a Automoble Radar Detector Pick up Marine Radar? It may be helpful in detecting other boats (with their radars on) near you.

 

[BILL ROBB]

How about a blinding rainstorm?

We very seldom have deep fog conditions here on Lake Erie. What we do have is quick storms. The visibility drops to about the same as in a pea-soup fog. When caught in one as I have been, I keep minimum way on and concentrate on my compass/GPS course. The visibility clears soon enough to avert any real danger. Bill on STARGAZER

 

[henkmeuzelaar]

Agree 100 % with Howard's post

Fog in a busy seaway is NEVER a walk in the park. Even with radar, predicting the behavior of multiple moving targets is amazingly difficult, especially if you are moving yourself. Unless your radar has MARPA capability and/or you are in the middle of a busy shipping channel you may be best off to heave to with engine and sails at the ready and just see if any radar targets appear to be on a collision course.When using radar, whether in good or poor visibility, and seeing a target that threatens to approach closely, I always call them on the VHF, giving them THEIR approximate coordinates and heading (in order to minimize potentially dangerous confusion by having the 'wrong' ship respond) as well as as my location relative to their starboard or port bow and ask for "their intentions". Even in Vanuatu I manage to establish VHF contact with "copra boats" and other rust-buckets puttering around the islands at amazing speed nearly 2 out of 3 tries. These radio calls also serve to make other vessels aware of your position and are less intrusive than constant Securetee calls.Happy wakes!Flying Dutchman

 

[George Smith]

Whistler.....Mike C

Mike, can't give you a definite answer but the whistler unit has no direction capabilities. It might make some noise, but where do you look??

 

[Rick D]

Zero Visibility Builds Character

..and, like most near-death experiences, is apt to cause you to reorder priorities. I finally purchased a radar ten years ago after too many crossings of the shipping lanes in SoCal with zip visibility. It's a big expense, but it saves a lot of tension. I used to use my RDF and depthsounder to find the depth contour (if I couldn't find someone with radar to follow). Once, following that system, a guy with a good looking gal up in the flybridge of a fast cruiser cut 90 degrees in front of me with his radar spinning. Really made my hair stand up since I thought I was headed to the harbor entrance. I was. He ended up on the beach. Gotta be able to read the things for them to help. Recently helped someone back from Mexico and ran into pea-soup just outside the LA Harbor. We just continued on course thinking it was the safest thing to do and took bearings every 15 minutes from a handheld GPS. Brought my charting skills back on line in a hurry! Having said all that, close in, heavy traffic, radar isn't perfect and you need all the tools at hand. Rick D.

 

[Don12364]

Shipping Industry's Guilty Secret

One 4 hour period on a morning last May the Cherbourg VTS monitored 20 ships moving in the English Channel.The viz. was between 50 and 100 yards.19 out of the 20 were steaming at their full service speeds of between 25 and 35 knots.A yacht was run down and sank.Shipowners just measure the sea distance between ports and divide it by the service speed of the ship. This then becomes the schedule. No allowances are made for weather, fog, breakdowns.With their radar and AIS ships now see anything which is life threatening (to them).Captains constantly complain yachts are difficult to see on radar.See Marine Accident Investigation Board Report on link below.

 

[chuckwayne]

whistler detector

Mike,I don't think it'll do you much good-small radars are x band and would be picked up by an automotive detector, but large ships also use I band and you wouldn't see that. the bigger issue is that the whistler is looking for a steady radar aimed up the road, but the marine radar would just be quickly sweeping past your boat-you might get a quick beep, but that's all