City Zoo, Vega 1590, has a Beta BZ482 13.5 H.P. engine with TMC 40 M transmission. The service manual recommends sailing with engine off and transmission in neutral. That means the prop will rotate freely. For long distance passages, it seems better to sail with transmission in reverse so no parts will wear. Any body know if that would harm the transmission? Thanks for any comments. William.
Sailing in neutral
- Thread starter wehpegasus
- Start date
I'm not sure about Beta but Yanmar requires their Kanzaki transmissions to
be in neutral as if in gear the cone clutches wear excessively.
be in neutral as if in gear the cone clutches wear excessively.
Hi
I have the same setup, installed my Beta 12 years ago. I always put mine
into gear when sailing as I hate the whining noise!
Cheers
Steve B
I have the same setup, installed my Beta 12 years ago. I always put mine
into gear when sailing as I hate the whining noise!
Cheers
Steve B
I leave mine in reverse to save wear and tear on the stuffing box packing and bearings in the gearbox.
I would think, in gear, nothing is turning therfore nothing is wearing.
Just my preference.
Peter
www.sintacha.com
I would think, in gear, nothing is turning therfore nothing is wearing.
Just my preference.
Peter
www.sintacha.com
In a Yanmar (with the Kanzaki trans) that promotes clutch wear and they
have issued a bulletin stating that it should be left in neutral. Here is
the link to the bulletin.
Beta may be different but I would check with Beta themselves. As Yanmar
states they will not cover any trans damage caused by leaving it in gear.
have issued a bulletin stating that it should be left in neutral. Here is
the link to the bulletin.
YANMAR - Gear Position While Sailing - SailNet Community
I know this will get interesting. For those of you not smarter than the engineers at Yanmar, this TSB may be beneficial for you. We finally have a
www.sailnet.com
states they will not cover any trans damage caused by leaving it in gear.
Brian, I have been thinking about this and I guess that revers in those
transmissions is a planetary gear at the back of the transmission. If
gears are turning but the hydraulic pump is not running they are running
dry. In neutral those gears are not running. The whole unit turns and
the unit is turning in a bath of oil.
A brake on the prop shaft is a better solution as a prop that is not
turning offers less resistance to the water.
The design of the mechanical part of those transmissions go back to
the model "T" ford. They are almost identical. The difference is only
that the boat transmission has Hydraulics to tighten the clutches. The
engine mechanics like to claim that they are very complicated and only a
transmission man can work on them. Anybody who has some mechanical
ability even if he has never seen the inside of one can take one apart
and rebuild it. If you look inside of one it is very evident as to how
it works. Doug
transmissions is a planetary gear at the back of the transmission. If
gears are turning but the hydraulic pump is not running they are running
dry. In neutral those gears are not running. The whole unit turns and
the unit is turning in a bath of oil.
A brake on the prop shaft is a better solution as a prop that is not
turning offers less resistance to the water.
The design of the mechanical part of those transmissions go back to
the model "T" ford. They are almost identical. The difference is only
that the boat transmission has Hydraulics to tighten the clutches. The
engine mechanics like to claim that they are very complicated and only a
transmission man can work on them. Anybody who has some mechanical
ability even if he has never seen the inside of one can take one apart
and rebuild it. If you look inside of one it is very evident as to how
it works. Doug
Doug
A rotating prop has less drag than a fixed one.
"The experimental results confirm that a locked propeller produces greater
drag than does a freewheeling screw....."
That comes from page 24 here
MIT and Practical Sailor agree.
More discussion here:
www.sailnet.com
A rotating prop has less drag than a fixed one.
"The experimental results confirm that a locked propeller produces greater
drag than does a freewheeling screw....."
That comes from page 24 here
MIT and Practical Sailor agree.
More discussion here:
Propeller drag test under sail.
Good read. http://www.catamaransite.com/propeller_drag_test.html
Well that is really interesting and likely true for a free wheeling
propeller as they described. Still the prop has to turn a shaft in a
stuffing box and the gears and i other parts in the transmission and
that is doing work. So it seems to me that that is work and would seem
to not be free. If this is true we should be able to put a generator on
the shaft and it would generate electricity and the boat should go
faster than one with a lock on the propeller shaft. Maybe it will and
that is really interesting because everyone seems to think that
generating electricity with the boats propeller slows the boat down.
Someone with some time on their hands needs to experiment with this
some, their may be a product may be in the works here. I am not sure
what this means if anything.
propeller as they described. Still the prop has to turn a shaft in a
stuffing box and the gears and i other parts in the transmission and
that is doing work. So it seems to me that that is work and would seem
to not be free. If this is true we should be able to put a generator on
the shaft and it would generate electricity and the boat should go
faster than one with a lock on the propeller shaft. Maybe it will and
that is really interesting because everyone seems to think that
generating electricity with the boats propeller slows the boat down.
Someone with some time on their hands needs to experiment with this
some, their may be a product may be in the works here. I am not sure
what this means if anything.
Or just go sailing....?
From: Douglas Pollard
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 4:17 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Re: Sailing in neutral
Well that is really interesting and likely true for a free wheeling
propeller as they described. Still the prop has to turn a shaft in a
stuffing box and the gears and i other parts in the transmission and
that is doing work. So it seems to me that that is work and would seem
to not be free. If this is true we should be able to put a generator on
the shaft and it would generate electricity and the boat should go
faster than one with a lock on the propeller shaft. Maybe it will and
that is really interesting because everyone seems to think that
generating electricity with the boats propeller slows the boat down.
Someone with some time on their hands needs to experiment with this
some, their may be a product may be in the works here. I am not sure
what this means if anything.
From: Douglas Pollard
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 4:17 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Re: Sailing in neutral
Well that is really interesting and likely true for a free wheeling
propeller as they described. Still the prop has to turn a shaft in a
stuffing box and the gears and i other parts in the transmission and
that is doing work. So it seems to me that that is work and would seem
to not be free. If this is true we should be able to put a generator on
the shaft and it would generate electricity and the boat should go
faster than one with a lock on the propeller shaft. Maybe it will and
that is really interesting because everyone seems to think that
generating electricity with the boats propeller slows the boat down.
Someone with some time on their hands needs to experiment with this
some, their may be a product may be in the works here. I am not sure
what this means if anything.
Brian,
Thanks for the link ... very interesting especially the part that says "...... in reverse the clutch cones can chatter or vibrate against one another causing wear which eventually leads to slippage and a gear box re-build."
If the shifter is adjusted properly and the clutches are fully engaged I don't understand how they can "chatter". If they're "chattering" while sailing, engine off and in reverse, surley they would be slipping a whole lot when motoring in reverse. (Let's not start another "Vega backing up" discussion here ;-)
Because of the conflicting reports of the results of sailing with the box in reverse, I suspect the problem might only occur in poorly adjusted or worn gear boxes.
I'm going to put a mechanic's stethascope on the gear box next time I'm out sailing to see what this "chatter" is all about!
Peter
www.sintacha.com
Thanks for the link ... very interesting especially the part that says "...... in reverse the clutch cones can chatter or vibrate against one another causing wear which eventually leads to slippage and a gear box re-build."
If the shifter is adjusted properly and the clutches are fully engaged I don't understand how they can "chatter". If they're "chattering" while sailing, engine off and in reverse, surley they would be slipping a whole lot when motoring in reverse. (Let's not start another "Vega backing up" discussion here ;-)
Because of the conflicting reports of the results of sailing with the box in reverse, I suspect the problem might only occur in poorly adjusted or worn gear boxes.
I'm going to put a mechanic's stethascope on the gear box next time I'm out sailing to see what this "chatter" is all about!
Peter
www.sintacha.com
There should be very little drag on a prop in neutral. When you put an
alternator on a spinning shaft there will be drag. This has been an
effective way to produce power, mostly on larger boats with a prop designed
for it.
alternator on a spinning shaft there will be drag. This has been an
effective way to produce power, mostly on larger boats with a prop designed
for it.