I've got a 91 Legend 375 with Yanmar. Two blade fixed prop. More or less new to sailing. Question: Does one keep the transmission in neutral or in gear under sail? My prop and shaft spin freely while sailing so I assume this is more efficient and nothing is really going on the transmission but I've seen a comment once that keeping it locked in reverse is preferable? If there were gears in contact in the transmission, I assume I wouldn't be able to turn it with one hand. Seems neutral makes most sense. What's right?
Sailing in neutral or gear?
- Thread starter Phil P
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Never seen a definitive answer on this. My Yanmar manual says it is preferable to keep it in reverse. It see less then 1/2 knot reduction when I have it in reverse vs neutral. Personally, my prop starts to make noise after about 4.5 knots if in neutral which I find annoying. So I usually keep it in neutral until the noise bothers me, then I put it in reverse. Just remember to put it back into neutral before you start it 
Yanmar insists that freewheeling in neutral is preferred. If your engine is under warranty locking it in gear will actually void the gear box warranty.
Here's a thread on this with the MSA advisory from Yanmar..
A Definitive Answer (Yanmar Gear Position) (LINK)
Here's a thread on this with the MSA advisory from Yanmar..
A Definitive Answer (Yanmar Gear Position) (LINK)
What kind of noise? We had an annoying thumping when the shaft was freewheeling that completely went away once we finally figured out the proper way to do an alignment. Now we don't hear a thing no matter how fast we sail.Cool. That's what I get for reading a 30+ year old manual
Still find the noise above 4.5 knots annoying.
If you sail with the transmission in reverse it can be a SOB to return it to neutral when starting the engine.
The real solution
Sailing in gear puts huge stress on the coupling, shaft, and tranny.
I know you don't want to hear this but....get a feathering prop.
You will have no prop-walk in reverse, boat handling will be a breeze, and you will get rid of the "sailing with prop" issue
Sailing with the prop free-wheeling is bad for the transmission, as it isn't being lubricated properly.
Sailing in gear puts huge stress on the coupling, shaft, and tranny.
I know you don't want to hear this but....get a feathering prop.
You will have no prop-walk in reverse, boat handling will be a breeze, and you will get rid of the "sailing with prop" issue
I have a Hunter 280 with a 2-blade fixed prop. While out this past week, I went below and checked the shaft (thinking I would try to line the prop up with the keel to get a little more speed) and the shaft was not turning....tranny was in neutral. Is that an indication of a problem somewhere in the shaft/transmission ? We were probably sailing at 4-5 knots at the time.....fresh water (Lake Michigan).... Boat was launched in early April, fresh VC17 applied, prop was clean when we splashed.Maine Sail said:
Greg
Excuse me for asking, but what? The gears are immersed in an oil bath. What is it that you think would be different inside the transmission if the engine were running and the shaft engaged? This isn't like an early model automobile automatic transmission, where there was a fluid pump that ran off the engine that had to be operating to provide lubrication to the back end.
I think the fact that Yanmar has issued a technical memorandum directing owners to sail with their transmissions in neutral and the shaft freewheeling is pretty much the definitive answer on the issue. I seriously doubt that they'd be directing owners to do something that was known to cause harm.
But if it really bothers someone, the best solution would be a shaft brake. I would imagine that would be a helluva lot cheaper and easier to maintain than a feathering prop.
Here is the bulletin from Yanmar.
They say sail in neutral and it will not harm the transmission.
If you do happen to sail with engine in reverse, do no force shifter to neutral to start the engine. You can damage the shift linkage. Instead start in reverse and then immediately shift to neutral.
DATE February 8, 2008 Dealers and OEMs
TO: All Marine Distributors
SUBJECT: Gear in Neutral While Sailing All MODELS:
All Sailboat Engines
We continue to get questions regarding the correct gear position while sailing with the engine OFF. This advisory is issued as a reminder; Yanmar requires that if sailing with the engine OFF (not running) the transmission shifter must be in the neutral position or internal damage to the gear or sail-drive will result. This damage will not be covered by Yanmar’s Limited Warranty. Please instruct customers and dealers who deliver the sailboat to the customer, of the correct (Neutral) position for the marine gear while sailing.
If the customer desires that the propeller shaft not spin while sailing, either a folding propeller, shaft break, or other suitable device may be used. However, Yanmar accepts no responsibility for the selection, installation, or operation of such devices. Please also refer to Marine service advisory “MSA07-001_Yanmar Sail Drive Propeller Selection” for additional information.
If you have any questions regarding this advisory please contact a Customer Support representative.
They say sail in neutral and it will not harm the transmission.
If you do happen to sail with engine in reverse, do no force shifter to neutral to start the engine. You can damage the shift linkage. Instead start in reverse and then immediately shift to neutral.
DATE February 8, 2008 Dealers and OEMs
TO: All Marine Distributors
SUBJECT: Gear in Neutral While Sailing All MODELS:
All Sailboat Engines
We continue to get questions regarding the correct gear position while sailing with the engine OFF. This advisory is issued as a reminder; Yanmar requires that if sailing with the engine OFF (not running) the transmission shifter must be in the neutral position or internal damage to the gear or sail-drive will result. This damage will not be covered by Yanmar’s Limited Warranty. Please instruct customers and dealers who deliver the sailboat to the customer, of the correct (Neutral) position for the marine gear while sailing.
If the customer desires that the propeller shaft not spin while sailing, either a folding propeller, shaft break, or other suitable device may be used. However, Yanmar accepts no responsibility for the selection, installation, or operation of such devices. Please also refer to Marine service advisory “MSA07-001_Yanmar Sail Drive Propeller Selection” for additional information.
If you have any questions regarding this advisory please contact a Customer Support representative.
Article
...and as we post on this thread, Nigel in Sail Magazine advises the owner of a Yanmar to lock the trans under sail in reverse. Must have missed a meeting!
Seriously, a good argument for a folder or feathering prop.
...and as we post on this thread, Nigel in Sail Magazine advises the owner of a Yanmar to lock the trans under sail in reverse. Must have missed a meeting!
Seriously, a good argument for a folder or feathering prop.
Since that bulletin appeared, I now place the engine in gear once the engine is stopped to ensure that the prop is folded, then I put it back into neutral. Obviously a procedure is for folding props.
With the older "reverse" method, it was always VERY hard to get it back into neutral to start the engine again.
Chris
With the older "reverse" method, it was always VERY hard to get it back into neutral to start the engine again.
Chris
Yeah, I guess that Yanmar got tired of people having the transmissions stuck in reverse.. The shift is "stickier" to get out of reverse after locked during sailing, but starting the engine in reverse and shifting to neutral will get it out of reverse. Not having the engine power pulses to get the drive cones to release is the problem.. I know of nothing else in the transmission that would be damaged as a result of locking in reverse.
Note that sailing with transmission in neutral does not turn the gears inside the trnsmission. only the output shaft and the drive cone turns. The gears are stopped with the output shaft turning inside them on bearings. The output shaft bearings are lubricated (correct oil level is very important here) by the lower rollers of the bearings dipping into the top of the oil level and carrying the oil onto that shaft. The top shaft and gears aren't turning. The load on the output shaft bearings is tiny compared to the load when motoring under power.. so freewheeling along in neutral is fine..
Note that sailing with transmission in neutral does not turn the gears inside the trnsmission. only the output shaft and the drive cone turns. The gears are stopped with the output shaft turning inside them on bearings. The output shaft bearings are lubricated (correct oil level is very important here) by the lower rollers of the bearings dipping into the top of the oil level and carrying the oil onto that shaft. The top shaft and gears aren't turning. The load on the output shaft bearings is tiny compared to the load when motoring under power.. so freewheeling along in neutral is fine..
There is only one real solution
If you were to take the lesser of 2 evils; frewheeling versus locked, frewheeling is not as potentially harmful.
I have snapped a shaft on a boat where the prop was locked.
The torque moment on a large 3 blade fixed prop is enormous.
I have been on a boat with a hydraulic wheel brake, where the brake tore off its Mounts, spraying hydraulic fluid everywhere.
Long and the short if it, when you get into a larger boat, you have to carefully consider investing in a propeller which is made for purpose.
Yes, it costs some money, but it solves the issue, plus makes your boat handling much safer.
Anyway, thanks again for the info on the gyros*6]Yanmar insists that freewheeling in neutral is preferred. If your engine is under warranty locking it in gear will actually void the gear box warranty.
Here's a thread on this with the MSA advisory from Yanmar..
A Definitive Answer (Yanmar Gear Position) (LINK)[/QUOTE]
If you were to take the lesser of 2 evils; frewheeling versus locked, frewheeling is not as potentially harmful.
I have snapped a shaft on a boat where the prop was locked.
The torque moment on a large 3 blade fixed prop is enormous.
I have been on a boat with a hydraulic wheel brake, where the brake tore off its Mounts, spraying hydraulic fluid everywhere.
Long and the short if it, when you get into a larger boat, you have to carefully consider investing in a propeller which is made for purpose.
Yes, it costs some money, but it solves the issue, plus makes your boat handling much safer.
Anyway, thanks again for the info on the gyros*6]Yanmar insists that freewheeling in neutral is preferred. If your engine is under warranty locking it in gear will actually void the gear box warranty.
Here's a thread on this with the MSA advisory from Yanmar..
A Definitive Answer (Yanmar Gear Position) (LINK)[/QUOTE]
The cones can "chatter" against one another from the turbulence over the stalled prop. This can cause cone wear and lead to slippage. This was directly from my conversation with Yanmar. The secondary issue is that they get jammed in reverse and people break the linkage or damage the gear trying to force it back to neutral. According to the Yanmar rep they used to recommend starting in revers then shifting to forward but they had lots of cases of premature cone wear and investigated it and found the chatter to be a bigger issue that they had originally thought.
A guy on this site had exactly that happen to him and Yanmar denied coverage..
Yanmar Gear Box Warranty Post #32 (LINK)
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