Sailing in higher winds.

[zinahewitt]

Hi All,

Hope your weekend went nicely.

I have a boat, it is a Dufour 34, 1975.
It is a simple boat for a simple guy like me.

It is Sloop Rig.
There is a wheel in the back which you can rotate, I can't remember which but let's say clockwise tightens the backstay.
I have a furling jib.

I sail the bay area, so usually morning is light, mid day is mid and later on in the slot it becomes a game of sail reduction to avoid stressing my crew
and making it enjoyable.

so
Is there a rule on sail reduction.
I heard one rule which is start from the bow, so Jib first ?
Another guy said it is the sail that is closest to the wind.

Let's say jib first,
This sounds great, but then i have a furled jib which does not have a nice shape
and a full main.


The second item.
Is there a rule to how much I furl the jib.
Do they both have to have the same "height" as the main ?
You can reference no reef, reef 1,reef 2
So every time I want to reduce sail, I should reduce both to keep the mast balanced ?


Third item. - You can reference the MAST item.
As the wind is growing stronger.
I assume the mast is being pulled more and more toward the bow of the sailboat ?
As the jib sail is further and further to the bow.
The more I reef, the more it pulls to the bow ?
The main also moves the center of effort closer to the mast

Am I correct and if so, do I need to spin the backstay adjuster to tighten the backstay ?



Last two items.
I was told as the wind moves along to pull the jib cars further aft.
I was told as the wind moves along to tighten the halyard on the main and pull harder on my outhauls.
I've found both of the above to add maybe single digit control, they were definitely not double digit control like reefing a main or furling a jib.
Are these like "micro" adjustments ?

 

[Stu Jackson]

I sailed The Bay from 1980 to 2016.

1. Don't use a jib bigger than 130, better yet is a 110; also keeps the fairlead thing simpler.

2. Reef your main. I had my "April to September Reef" in for many, many years on my C22, C24 and C34.

3 . Learn to find "The Groove" where you're sailing upwind and everything is balanced.

4. Most times masts on masthead rigs are telephone poles and backstay adjusters don't do much. Better to get your forestay tension correct to begin with. I had a Garhauer split backstay adjuster, just used it going upwind.

5. Don't sweat the rest of the details, you're overthinking it.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Buy and use Don Guillette's Sail Trim Guide available in books right here. Best sail trim book known to man. Answers all the rest of your questions.

 

[Davidasailor26]

+1 for everything Stu said.

Generally a reefed main has a much more efficient shape and is better for balancing the boat than a partially furled jib. For that reason I generally reef the main first, then start furling the jib if that’s not enough. There’s no rule about how much to furl the jib relative to the main.

Generally you do want more backstay tension as wind increases. In a fractional rig and bendy mast that helps flatten and depower the main. Not so much on a masthead rig, but it still helps keep the forestay straight and maintain jib shape.

Like you said the jib cars and outhaul are more fine tuning than large scale power reductions. Worth doing, but not a dramatic measure. Bringing the cars back adds twist to the jib, allowing some air to spill off the top and depowering the sail a little. Tightening the outhaul flattens the main, also depowering it a little. Keep in mind that if you do furl the jib you may need to check your car positions again for the new angles.

 

[shemandr]

On masthead rigs the backstay adjuster can add tension to the forestay - It won't move the mast head very much or at all. But tightening the forestay helps flatten the jib and depower it. Don't over do it.
Think of moving the jib cars aft as analogous to pulling the main's outhaul back (Or tight). Both flatten the sail. For the jib there's the added effect of opening the leech (Or adding twist) which also depowers the sail.
On a masthead rig I would shorten sail by reefing the main first. I used to sail my Ranger 29 at times with just the jib upwind. That configuration took a lot of tension out of sailing on a windy day. Note that I had hank on jibs and would have the 110 on if it was windy. I never sailed with the 135 or larger without the main. I don't think tacks would go well.
If I had roller reefing on the jib I would probably have rolled a bit in (Up to 1/3) rather than reef the main because it's easier.
Tightening the halyards moves the draft forward. That makes the steering groove wider which is helpful in waves. By the time you are thinking about a reef, the halyards should be tight on and the Cunningham too. BTW, if you really crank on the jib halyard you can make the jib halyard the effective forestay - so don't over do it.
The OP is correct that reefing the jib moves the center of effort of the jib forward - the wrong way. But that's a sloop rig. Unless you equip the boat with an inner stay to set a staysail on that's what you are stuck with.
Regarding the single digit control versus double digit control, I would agree. I wouldn't agree that sail trim are micro controls.
When sailing upwind on windier days, the you reach a point where the traveler is down to the extent of it's range, the main is flogging and you don't want to reef yet, you can release some main sheet tension and pull the traveler up to control luffing. This configuration puts more twist in the main allowing wind to spill off the top and reduces power and heel making a more comfortable ride. We can argue all day about speed and upwind angles but I think it's faster than stopping the boat to reef on a leg of an around the buoys race. Yes, I know serious racers prefer to have the main flogging in gusts and trim-able only in lulls but I can't stand watching my sail beat itself to death.

 

[zinahewitt]

Buy and use Don Guillette's Sail Trim Guide available in books right here. Best sail trim book known to man. Answers all the rest of your questions.

Thanks, I got a copy in the mail

 

[zinahewitt]

+1 for everything Stu said.

Generally a reefed main has a much more efficient shape and is better for balancing the boat than a partially furled jib. For that reason I generally reef the main first, then start furling the jib if that’s not enough. There’s no rule about how much to furl the jib relative to the main.

Generally you do want more backstay tension as wind increases. In a fractional rig and bendy mast that helps flatten and depower the main. Not so much on a masthead rig, but it still helps keep the forestay straight and maintain jib shape.

Like you said the jib cars and outhaul are more fine tuning than large scale power reductions. Worth doing, but not a dramatic measure. Bringing the cars back adds twist to the jib, allowing some air to spill off the top and depowering the sail a little. Tightening the outhaul flattens the main, also depowering it a little. Keep in mind that if you do furl the jib you may need to check your car positions again for the new angles.

Thanks, that way my experience too so I always did the main reef first before the jib.