Sailing in heavy weather

[kpgraci]

I used to have an O'Day 20 and as i recall the boat did not sail well under main alone. That is one thing to find out - how does your boat handle under main alone and under jib alone.

That is an excellent suggestion. I realized that some of the conflicting advice (no sails, main only, jib only) was due to the fact that all boats handle differently, and yes, I need to play around during nice conditions and she how she handles.

As for my severe weather plan, in an actual TStorm I'm going sails down. In rougher but not severe weather I'll have to see what works for the boat.

 

[RichH]

Thanks for the replies so far, anyone else with advice I will be glad to have it.

Well, not unlike my readings there are some differing opinions here, but enough commonality for me to make a plan.

With this boat and at this point in my sailing career and I would say:

Avoid of course, but if avoidance is not possible:

1. PFDs all around, secure the hatches.
2. Lower and secure the Jib
3. Heavily reef the main, if it looks to get really bad, lower it altoghther.
4. Prepare the anchor for a quick deployment.
4. Start the engine, mine's on on the starboard side, so a port tack to keep the prop wet.
6. If its too difficult to control or the boat is being blown into danger, Lower the main, throw out the anchor, and go below.

7. If the OB engine is a 4 stroke - Consult your engine manual to be sure that you dont exceed the ANGLE OF HEEL that causes the engine to STOP LUBRICATING ..... then seize up.
Usually listed as: maximum heel angle.

 

[kpgraci]

7. If the OB engine is a 4 stroke - Consult your engine manual to be sure that you dont exceed the ANGLE OF HEEL that causes the engine to STOP LUBRICATING ..... then seize up.
Usually listed as: maximum heel angle.

Good point. Mine is a 2-stroke, an older 7.5 HP Merc, so while I'm not going to be outrunning anything, it will push the boat at 6 knots on medium throttle.

My neighbor offered me the use of (or maybe he wanted me to buy it?) his 25 he no longer uses. I was tempted.

 

[bffatcat]

What to do in a line squall

Youve got a lot of conflicting opinions here. Ive got 50 years of experience in all kinds of conditions. If the sky start looking threatening. drop your main immediately. continue toward port under jib alone and motor. If things get to hairy try anchoring until it blows over

 

[jibes138]

Seems like Lake P should be about 90 degrees this time of year. Wearing a PFD in that water temp I think the survival time would be days. If you disagree read the book "The Indianapolis" where the guys were in the water for almost a week. The key is flotation and water temperature. You can live pretty long without food but you need water, so maybe a little water attached to each life jacket somehow.

 

[kpgraci]

Youve got a lot of conflicting opinions here. Ive got 50 years of experience in all kinds of conditions. If the sky start looking threatening. drop your main immediately. continue toward port under jib alone and motor. If things get to hairy try anchoring until it blows over

Thanks for that, and yes, this is part of the confusion. I need to see how she handles with reefed main/no jib and jib/no main, but then I'm sure wind speed and seas will effect the equation as well, so my fair weather tests may not hold under adverse conditions.

I guess that's why experience is key. I'll get there.

 

[kpgraci]

If you disagree read the book "The Indianapolis" where the guys were in the water for almost a week.

And Lake P has a minimal shark problem. That's nice. There is however runoff, sewage, and mercury to contend with.

With a float plan and a wife at home I'm sure we would be picked up eventually, and at only 14 feet deep, the boat, even if swamped, should have something sticking out of the water.

Let's hope it doesn't come to that!

 

[Todd Smith]

$300 PLB can fit in a small pouch on the PFD.

http://www.fastfindplb.com/en/index.php

 

[Drew13440]

C'mon you guys cut it out with the water supplies and GPS stuff. You're scaring him.

Go out there have fun keep an eye on the weather. The End.

 

[kpgraci]

C'mon you guys cut it out with the water supplies and GPS stuff. You're scaring him.

lol. Anyone have advice on cannibalism? I mean, if it comes to that.

I'll be fine. I'll just follow the other boats and do what they do.

Man, I want to go sailing...

 

[Lee Coller]

lol. Anyone have advice on cannibalism? I mean, if it comes to that.

I'll be fine. I'll just follow the other boats and do what they do.

Man, I want to go sailing...

You can find some guidance here: In the Heart of the Sea: The Tragedy of the Whaleship Essex

 

[jimmcgee]

lol. Anyone have advice on cannibalism? I mean, if it comes to that.

It's all about having the right BBQ sauce

 

[druid]

Seems like Lake P should be about 90 degrees this time of year. Wearing a PFD in that water temp I think the survival time would be days.

If the wind is over 50 knots, the waves would be huge and breaking, and the air above the water would be almost all spray. I'd think survival would be minutes, even with a pfd.

And again, you guys sail in SUCH different conditions than me! Depth is usually over 200 ft - anchoring is NOT an option. And the reason I prefer main over jib is that when you're stalled, a jib will tend to pull the bow off the wind, filling the jib, whereas a main tends to "weathercock" you into the wind, luffing the sail. Bare poles is a good option but it doesn't allow you to get the boat heading into the waves, so pooping is a danger. (if winds are over 50 knots, I'd say it's a danger anyway... )

druid

 

[zeehag]

lol. Anyone have advice on cannibalism? I mean, if it comes to that.

I'll be fine. I'll just follow the other boats and do what they do.

Man, I want to go sailing...

bring your dog, renamed stew, and cannibalism shouldnot be a problem ..yuuummm---puppy satay...lol.....besides, one could row across ponchartrain in less than a week , anyway..lol....
the water in ponchartrain never got big for me while i was there---just close together and choppy as devils...would make a small boat uncomfortable i would think--i dont think would get seas so big that the boat would be pooped--even the lil one you have--but i never expected to be pooped by an 8' sea, either--lol--i thought it would be a large roller in the pacific doing that to me!!
are no sharks in ponchartrain--lol--but there are other forms of sea life...ponchartrain looks like a cool lake to sail....never havi9ng done the lake except to exit the area to the gulf, i think day sailing there could be nice way to spend a day..just keep a weather eye open and be ready -- it will come...the thunderboomers we sailed thru had winds from 50-75 kts inside them---wow--a bit much for a smaller boat--we were on the edge for a while--was a gas---fun sailing!!!!! remember-when th ewinds grow fluky and then stop--run like a scalded dog for home or shelter --is cooommmiinnnggg!!!!!!


druid--is why i like my ketch--i will be able to lessen sail to jib and jigger and have at it ... i much prefer the deep waters --over 150 ft -- to the skinny waters in weather--is a smoother ride...still busy, but the seas arent as boxy and steep......

 

[kpgraci]

Actually, I've DANCED a may-pole...

Is there a you tube of that?

Great replies, thanks to all. Boating in general (sadly less and less these days :neutral and sailing in particular seems to have a great comradery and friendship about it, one of its many appeals.

 

[sailaway78]

Most on this board

Have no experience with Lake P. It is approx. 50 miles long and 25 wide. And deep water is 20 feet. Average probably around 10 to 12. This makes it very unique when thunder storms pop up. It gets very, very rough, very, very quickly. I am not in any way telling you that the advice given is not good information. But be prepared. If you are out in mid lake, there is no where to run, no where to hide. You will have to make the best of it. Thats why I said that in a 22 footer, for a beginner, I strongly recommend dropping all sail and cranking up the motor. You very well may have only one or two minutes between dead calm and being in a washing machine.

 

[higgs]

Druid - you are giving advice based on your boat. The Oday 22 is very simialr to the 20 and the main gave that boat very poor control. Each boat is different and one has to learn what works for their boat. My present boat is jib driven and I would never go into a severe T storm with the main up as it gives me very little control w/o a jib. On the other hand, my boat handles very nicely under jib alone and that would be my choice in a T storm. On my cutter rig, I have the option of flying a small staysail on a furler. In high winds this would be my choice.

 

[jibes138]

Most sloops before going to bare poles will use a storm jib in heavy weather and perhaps a storm trysail, heaving to might also be a maneuver for the expected conditions.
Here is a question for Druid but perhaps for all. I don't know the answer just looking for thoughts. If Lake P is only 14 feet deep then what is the maximum size that the waves could become regardless of wind strength? Doesn't seem like they could get that big or the troughs would be mud and the the tops of the waves maybe 28 feet? So maybe 20 feet miht be possible? Rescue swimmers are kown to dive into pretty sever conditions, go for a swim wearing a mask and snorkle and a PFD and don't quickly succumb to asphyxiation from the relative humidity from the spray and such. I agree it would be physically exhausting like being in a washing machine but assume a passing thunder squall would churn up someone falling overboard for maybe a half hour, then it will likely be just floating in a very warm lake until rescued or possibly swimming to a shore. Swimming without references is a problem though. Like hiking in the woods you will likely swim in circles since one arm stroke will be a little more powerful than the other.

 

[dmc]

A note from Lake St. Clair.....

Lk. St Clair is about 20 mi x20 mi and avg depth is about 18 ft. I seldom see a t storm that covers the whole lake. Dodging storms is one of the favored games here. When we get caught, anchor, connect a battery jumper cable to the backstay and throw it in the water if there is lightning. I have hove-to, but with a shipping channel in the middle of the lake, not such a good idea. Reefing and sailing is fun, short 5-6 ft. waves are good practice for the Great Lakes. Big Water different seas.
Main Point: Practice makes perfect.

Peace

dmc

 

[Sandy Stone]

On lake P

It would be unusual to see waves much over 4 feet in your average T-storm, due to the short duration and localized nature of the high winds. In fact I managed to get caught in one a couple of weeks ago, and at the peak I think I saw winds over 35 kts for maybe 10 minutes. I don't think the waves went over 3 feet in that one, at least where I was. It can get a lot rougher when a strong cold front blows through, with winds of 25 - 30 kts covering the whole lake for 24 hours or so. You might see waves over 5 feet, and many years back a crew was lost off the foredeck of a J-24 during a race in those conditions.

That brings up my only objection to sailling jib-only in a storm. It might look doable at first, but if the wind really picks up, now you're looking at going up on the wet, heeling, pitching foredeck of a small boat and trying to gather in a sail whipping in the wind. I've done that and I think it's best to get it down and secured ahead of time.