Sailing IN Gear

justsomeguy · Oct 14, 2014

Neutral.

Don S/V ILLusion · Oct 14, 2014

Your "instructor" apparently believes in intuitive mechanics. You might want to get a new instructor.

Stu Jackson · Oct 14, 2014

http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=The_Right_Transmission_Gear_for_Sailing

RTFM

LakeOntario270 · Oct 14, 2014

My owners manual says NEUTRAL.
My owners manual also says use straight 30W oil, not transmission fluid for the transmission.

kloudie1 · Oct 14, 2014

If that PO has sailed that boat that way for many years, the forward drive transmission cone will have lots of wear.Make sure it is not slipping next time you go out. first check the transmission oil.. if it is black and funky, change it immediately to get the wear particles out so no further damage is done.. Neutral or reverse. There is a lot of discussion on this site ..
There are a couple/three different transmission types. They use different oils.. verify your model/type and its recommended oil.

twdevore · Oct 14, 2014

We put it in reverse. I believe it's different for every engine.

Anonymous 121765 · Oct 14, 2014

I always thought that a Hurth tranny should be kept locked in reverse gear, NEVER forward.

Both my 5411 & 3M20A had instructions for locking in Reverse gear.

I have some local racing friends that keep their tranny in neutral only when racing, to cut down the 3% (?) drag.

Cr

Stu Jackson · Oct 14, 2014

twdevore said:
We put it in reverse. I believe it's different for every engine.

Close.

It's not the engine, it IS the transmission.

Chuckbear · Oct 14, 2014

This will depend on the transmission. You should check with a mechanic familiar with the transmission or better yet the manufacturer if they are still around. Some transmission can be put in either forward or reverse without an issue. Others will suffer damage from doing this. Just because a previous owner sailed with the transmission in gear, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. Most need to be in neutral, but not all. Chuck

Davidasailor26 · Oct 14, 2014

Yeah, definitely not forward for a Hurth transmission (the one your ODay likely has). It will wear it and lead to slipping. Reverse is fine if you don't want the shaft to spin.

Chuckbear · Oct 14, 2014

Keep in mind that if there is no harm to your transmission with your prop spinning let it spin. There's a lot of research out there that say a freewheeling prop will produce less drag than a stationary prop. Chuck

twdevore · Oct 14, 2014

Thanks for the correction STU

shemandr · Oct 14, 2014

captnron said:
I have some local racing friends that keep their tranny in neutral only when racing, to cut down the 3% (?) drag.

I'll take winning by 3%!

Don S/V ILLusion · Oct 14, 2014

captnron said:
I always thought that a Hurth tranny should be kept locked in reverse gear, NEVER forward.

Both my 5411 & 3M20A had instructions for locking in Reverse gear.

I have some local racing friends that keep their tranny in neutral only when racing, to cut down the 3% (?) drag.

Cr

If he was that concerned about drag in racing, he'd likely have a different prop.

JK_Boston_Catalina310 · Oct 14, 2014

Sometimes I feel like I am in the Bill Murray movie Groundhog Day on these forums.

http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=151762

By the way, this is what Maine Sail said: "My results were such a close mirror of what MIT found that I would suggest reading the MIT prop study. Feathering and folding is less drag than a spinning fixed prop but a spinning fixed prop is a lot less drag than a fixed locked prop.."

Maine Sail · Oct 14, 2014

Coyote said:
Which gear do you sail in?

Our PO has instructed us to sail in gear - FORWARD - to keep the prop and shaft from free-wheeling while under way, and create less drag, and reduce wear on the bearings,, Makes sense to me!!!

I JUST read in the Universal M-12 (other models listed) Owner's Manual
"DO NOT LEAVE GEAR IN FORWARD DURING SAILING WITH ENGINE OFF"

so I assume we are to be sailing with GEAR set IN REVERSE!
sounds counter-intuitive --

Any suggestions, or confirmation,,

cheers,
Coyote

Your PO has done you a great disservice. I would advise changing your gear fluid ASAP. Leaving it in forward can shed bits of metal into the fluid then ruin the thrust bearing. The HBW-50 is especially prone to plate shedding if left in forward and there are very few of these gears left in circulation...

Not only was he dead wrong on the gear position to use he has not a clue about drag....

A fixed blade sailboat prop when locked creates MORE DRAG not less, but what does an institution like MIT know when compared to your brilliant PO.......

What else did your PO screw up is the real question.....?

Most manufactures agree that forward is bad for gear boxes and Hurth/ZF specifically advises against forward. You have a Hurth gear on an M-12, most likely an HBW-50...

Westerbeke / Universal has weighed in, and this info is well known, had your PO cared to actually fact check his wisdom... ZF/Hurth or JS gear boxes used on Westerbeke & Universals can be left in both neutral OR reverse but NEVER FORWARD when moving forward.

From Westerbeke / Universal:

UNIVERSAL DIESEL WITH HURTH TRANSMISSION

Model HBW-50 (2:1)
Used on Models 12, M2-12, M-18, M3-20, M4-30, M25 and M-25XP

Model HBW-100 (1.8:1)
Used on Models 30, 35, and 40

Model HBW-150 (1.9:1)
Used on Model 50

Model HBW-150 V-Drive (2.13:1)
Used on All of our V-Drive Models

Image Courtesy C-34 Association

Anonymous 121765 · Oct 14, 2014

Guys,

I think Mainsail really nailed it. But if the manuf. says differently, this is what you should follow.

I would rather differently. From what I have seen, a tranny that doesn't move does NOT wear. A spinning shaft that does NOT spin will not impact the longevity of a cutlass bearing. It's just simple logic.

You all decide......I don't like the rumbling sound, I want to hear my Classical music. This brings the dolphins & wales in.

CR

ifmdalvey · Oct 14, 2014

My Yanmar 3JH is neutral but i think some confusion has arisen in the past when they used to recommend reverse, but i understand that Yanmar changed many years ago.