Sailing Close Hauled Question

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Jun 12, 2010
936
Oday 22 Orleans Marina, NOLA
Newbie question - Went out sailing Sunday, after a few hours of no wind things picked up and we had some fun. In sailing close hauled I drew in the sails a much as possible - no problem for the main, but the jib...the jib sheets run on the outside of the shrouds, and this limits how close in they can be trimmed. Would this be the normal limit for the jib? Lookng at the points of sail diagrams they seem to show the jib trimmed very close to centerline, which is just not possible with the shrouds in the way.
 
May 11, 2005
3,431
Seidelman S37 Slidell, La.
Sheets outboard

When the jib sheets are outboard the shrouds, this is your limiting factor on how close to the wind you can trim the sail. Unless of course you use some of the racers tricks, in which case you can gain a few more degrees. I'm sure some of them will pipe up and give you some ideas, but I don't race, and when I get to the point where the shrouds are the limiting factor in trimming the sail, I just go with that.
 

RECESS

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Dec 20, 2003
1,505
Pearson 323 . St. Mary's Georgia
Does the 22 have a block located inside the side stays for the 100 jib? As the 100 jib should not extend past the stays anyway, I do not see why you could not put a block there if you wanted to trim it that close. The 25 is not a racer in any way shape or form so I never worry about it. I have the inside blocks and use my 150 genoa so much I actually forget to run the jib sheets through the inside black when we get a little wind in the summer.
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,196
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
A track outside the shrouds, on the toe rail, is often called the "genoa" track. It's there to accommodate larger headsails, especially those on masthead rigs, that would otherwise be interfered with by the shrouds. You could install an inside track to reduce the lead angle, I have one on my boat, but you'll still have to run the sheets outside the shrouds for your genoa. With a smaller headsail, say a 90-100 jib, you could probably run the sheets inside the shrouds without interference... but before you go to all that expense and trouble, try rigging a barber-hauler... That would be a line that pulls the sheet in farther, athwartship. A snatch block with a control line works well for this. The block opens and you can put it around the sheet while it's under load, then run the control line across the boat to a cabin top winch where you can get enough purcase to bring the sail's clew in closer. You can experiment this way before deciding on a more permanent solution, either an inside track or a fixed set of blocks for barber-hauling, but I am still using the "temporary" method, because it works well and I have an inside track! With an inside track you can run a second sheet to the new block and a secondary winch, then play the two together to position the clew anywhere between the inside and outside track.

That said.... I don't think you'll improve performance that much.... why... because even though the pointing angle may improve a degree or two, the reduction in speed will have a counter effect.... you need speed to get enough lift to point well. If the air is too light, a very tight lead angle will choke the slot between main and jib and the speed drops off dramatically.

So. here are two things you can do: First: Determine your lead angle. From the tack, measure the angle between the boat's centerline and a straight line to the lead block's average position. If it's over 12-14 degrees you could experiment with barber hauling to see if there is a performance improvement. If it's less than 12 you might need to look elsewhere for imporvement.... although a new set of racing sails will change this drastically... where you could go down to 8 or 9 degrees no problem.

The second, and most important, thing is to use the VMG (velocity made good) feature on your gps to determe whether pinching in the sails actually increases your progression towards an upwind mark..... 90 percent of the time this is the reason you are trying to sail higher..... the other 10 percent is when you are simply trying to clear an obstacle without tacking and you could care less about VMG.... here is where the experiment with barber hauling will pay off in knowing how far you can reduce the lead angle without stalling. Have fun.
 

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
When the jib sheets are outboard the shrouds, this is your limiting factor on how close to the wind you can trim the sail. Unless of course you use some of the racers tricks, in which case you can gain a few more degrees. I'm sure some of them will pipe up and give you some ideas, but I don't race, and when I get to the point where the shrouds are the limiting factor in trimming the sail, I just go with that.
Very good advice from NNE.
Your boat has a 'short' or shoal keel and bringing the jibleads further in than the rail or shrouds can cause some boat handling problems. Once you soon pass the 'newbie' phase, you then can experiment by moving the position of the jib cars inside the shrouds or outside. Good luck.

BTW - here's a good reference to help 'jump start' your sailing (sail trim) pleasure: http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books/detail-books.htm?sku=56&cat=1308
 
Jun 12, 2010
936
Oday 22 Orleans Marina, NOLA
Re: SCH

Thanks for all the replies, great advice. I think of the 73 Oday 22 as the 'station wagon' of sailboats, 'family cruiser' as the brochure put it, so I think the current setup is fine. I'll play around with temporary rigging and see if it makes a difference but I expect to see little improvement - we'll see.

The jib is a 100 I'm sure, and, surprisingly, as far as I can tell the sails are the originals, as the main has the '22' in a circle just like in the brochure. I have no idea how long sails last, but I'm sure these are stretched a bit and don't form the optimal shape. Of course I know too that my sail trimming skills are, well, minimal.

As it was we had light winds (I'm guessing 4-7mph), and we sailed on a close reach for several miles averaging between 3-4 mph. We were keeping up with a much larger sailboat on the same tack (had to have been over 35 feet, very nice!). It was a good first time out and I'm pleased with the boat.
 
Oct 3, 2006
1,024
Hunter 29.5 Toms River
Just sheet it in tight to the shrouds, ease the main a little bit off centerline, and steer to the telltales. I'm going to guess you have old sails - and all the go-fast tricks to point higher will only work with a sail that sheets in flat as a board.
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,047
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
You might want to purchase Don Guilette's excellent Sail Trim guides, chart and book, availabel right here on this website.
 
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