Sailing characteristics between Hunter 26 , Catalina 250, or Mac 26d.

Apr 19, 2012
1,043
O'Day Daysailor 17 Nevis MN
I can't vouch for that since I've never sailed on an M 26 of any variety. But I do know I can trust my water-ballast boat far more than I thought I could.
I understand the physics behind water ballast but understanding it and actually getting an intuitive feel for it aren't necessarily the same. Having started in dinghy sailing, and spending a good share of my time in the water, it took me a long time to get comfortable with the heeling of even an iron keel boat. Eventually from experience, and a lot of help from the following picture and video (starting at 24:38), I've finally gained a lot of trust in my water ballasted Mac 26D.


Trying to Tip a Mac 26D.jpg
 

Kermit

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Jul 31, 2010
5,669
AquaCat 12.5 17342 Wateree Lake, SC
Hey Bud,
Mine was heeled over pretty far but I can assure you we (actually I, the other guy would have) didn't let it go that far. In retrospect I should have closed the ports!
I don't understand the theory of water ballast at all. Water is neutrally buoyant yet water sank the Titanic. Water does seem to work. I like water ballast!
 
Aug 1, 2011
3,972
Catalina 270 255 Wabamun. Welcome to the marina
Water is neutrally buoyant yet water sank the Titanic.
Kermee, as soon as you start to heel the boat the water starts to rise out of the water, and then it starts weighing 10lbs/ gallon or thereabouts.
That's why the water ballast boat heels 10 degrees "right now" and then digs in.
But you know this :)
 
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walt

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Jun 1, 2007
3,538
Macgregor 26S Hobie TI Ridgway Colorado
A little different explanation is what makes more sense to me regarding how water ballast works. You get a righting moment from moving a weight horizontally (because gravity acts horizontally) at the end of a lever arm. When you fill the water tank the boat does sink a little but it its simply a hull that has a fairly low center of gravity (CG).

The boats center of buoyancy (CB) is initially in line with the boats CG so there is no righting moment. However, as the boat starts to heel, the CB quickly moves to the outside of the boat and begins to create a moment arm that lifts the boats CG. How fast the CB moves out depends on hull shape and this is also why the boat is initially tender. Once the CB has moved out from the center and creates a moment arm that begins to lift the CG, the boat stiffens up. Its not the ballast going above the water line that creates the righting moment, its the center of buoyancy moving to the outside so that the center of gravity starts to get lifted - against the force of gravity.

At low heel angles, the water ballast boat CG is actually well placed to give a high righting moment per weight since at low heel angles, the raising of the CG is mostly in line with gravity. One more reason to sail a water ballast boat flat.

At high heel angles, the water ballast CG movement starts to have less of a vertical component and more of a horizontal component so it doesnt produce anywhere as much righting moment as a deep keel boat does. But at low heel angles, water ballast works well and if you want them to sail well (by maximizing the righting moment per ballast weight), you need to also keep them at fairly low heel angles.

righting_moment1.jpg
 
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Aug 1, 2011
3,972
Catalina 270 255 Wabamun. Welcome to the marina
That's a lot of the reason our beer is soooooo much better than that "training beer" you folks are forced to drink.
But then, we shouldn't go there because a conversation about specific gravity will likely ensue.
 

Kermit

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Jul 31, 2010
5,669
AquaCat 12.5 17342 Wateree Lake, SC
@walt
Thanks for the explanation. At first it meant nothing to my pea brain. But after examining the diagram it all makes sense now. @Crazy Dave Condon has been preaching flat sailing in the H260 forever. I prefer sailing flat but at least now I know what my boat can handle. And if it weren't for open windows it could probably handle more.
 

Kermit

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Jul 31, 2010
5,669
AquaCat 12.5 17342 Wateree Lake, SC
But then, we shouldn't go there because a conversation about specific gravity will likely ensue.
And ROW.

I'm looking forward to getting thrown out of bars after drinking your industrial-strength beer.
 
Aug 1, 2011
3,972
Catalina 270 255 Wabamun. Welcome to the marina
Well, you better hurry up there ol' son. We're running out of places, and if we are forced (forced, I tell you) to go to Saska-chew-un, there's gonna be trouble.
 
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Jun 8, 2004
10,381
-na -NA Anywhere USA
Walt;
Thank you for that information on the Center of Gravity, however, I found thru experience and I will stay in the realm of small boats, that heeling way over is not necessary if you want to go faster as experience, knowledge of sailing area, sail control and other reasons tend to support me not to mention what I learned from an avid sailor friend of mine who competitively raced winning many times in the Med... Then there is the fear factor of those with you who might bonk you in the head when heeling way over to include the kids, wife/girlfriend and others.

As for around ponds, they stink where I hear a lot of croaking Kermit. Glad you leave your opening ports open to catch those breezes inside to areiate the cabin. (And if it weren't for open windows it could probably could handle more)
 
Apr 19, 2012
1,043
O'Day Daysailor 17 Nevis MN
Walt, Thank you for the explanation and diagrams. Very well done.
 

walt

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Jun 1, 2007
3,538
Macgregor 26S Hobie TI Ridgway Colorado
While we are arguing about the right of way of specific gravity and specifically Canadian vs US beer (my training seems to be international).. One other sort of interesting thing that seems common with water ballast boats..

You might also notice that about every water ballast boat has fairly high freeboard as part of the design. This helps the righting moment at high heel angles - but it also tolerates high heel angles. Water ballast doesnt have the righting moment a deeper CG keel boat does at high heel angles so its easier to get to high heel angles if you are not paying attention in higher winds. But the good thing is that by design, they also tolerate this well. Bud posted a picture of one of these boats heeled way over with the pop top up and that might be unsafe with a lot of boats (see recent capsize thread - boat was NOT water ballast) but on my old Mac classic 26S, Im pretty sure I have had the sail in the water or close and have never seen a drop come in the cockpit. Ive had a wing keel sailboat in the past and have filled the cockpit with water. This was also safe on this particular wing keel boat as the water all quickly drained out but just somewhat of an interesting comparison.
 
Apr 19, 2012
1,043
O'Day Daysailor 17 Nevis MN
This was also safe on this particular wing keel boat as the water all quickly drained out but just somewhat of an interesting comparison.
As a point of interest, not that it has anything to do with this, but on little enclosed boats such as the LASER and Sunfish capsizing is the easiest way to get water out of the cockpit. (Doesn't work with my dinghy though.)
 
May 4, 2005
4,062
Macgregor 26d Ft Lauderdale, Fl
I want to say, with a improved / balanced rudder, and good sails, the macgregor 26d will out sail all you listed. properly rigged its fast. aft berth is huge and not the problem crawling over someone, when getting up in middle of night, but head room is tight. also the lazarette on the mac is huge. could hold bikes...

The hunter 26 would be my choice, money no object. a big little boat.
 
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Jun 8, 2004
10,381
-na -NA Anywhere USA
Mr. Bill;
Once I had an open house with all the water ballast boats to include hunter, catalina 250, Macgregor and the others. Practical Sailor was invited but no show. Each boat has it own pros and cons and that I will not compare one to another. As for sailing fast, it will depend on many factors to include experience, knowledge of sailing area, sails, and so on. These boats were specifically designed with the ease of trailering not as race boats.
 
Mar 9, 2009
84
Macgregor 26S New Port Richey, Fl
Like John23883, I have been there in heavy weather. I pulled my Mac 26c 8 hours to sail on Pensacola Bay. 4 adults on board with waves coming over the bow. We reduced sails and then went to the motor to finish that leg of 3 days of sailing. Was it scary, yes, but exciting too. I'm much more comfortable with the ability of the 26s now, and I have been in plenty of white cap seas since then. Once when coming in a narrow channel with 5 adults aboard, I had to point about 75 degrees to the channel in order to go in. The squall line came up on us in less than 15 minutes, and that is the way of the Gulf of Mexico. Short distance, I pull the 26s with a 4 cylinder Ford Ranger, up the not steep ramp too. Sometimes when the ramp is slick, I have to stop and let the water ballast drain so that I have enough traction.
 

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