Sailboat Power systems

[tommays]

Most of the folks that want this have not been able to keep a standard motor running and seem to somehow think they will be able to keep this running

I have looked at many of the sights selling kits and the motors seem to be rated like shop-vacs you know the one with 6hp that plug into a 15 amp outlet.

The current state of the art is forktrucks which have gone to 48 a volt DC battery running and AC motor as DC motor brushes are a never ending issue item

 

[COOL]

Most of the folks that want this have not been able to keep a standard motor running and seem to somehow think they will be able to keep this running

That is true in my case.
I was able to keep my rusting hulk of an Atomic 4
on life support for a number of years by changing
out a critical component now and again.
It was still gasping its last breaths
when I disposed of it in favor of a 6HP 4-Stroke
outboard engine. The boat now performs better
in every way, under power or sail.
I am now faced with an aging Volvo diesel,
on my larger boat, which is always difficult to start
and beyond my skills to repair and maintain.
I plan to repower with a simple 48V electric propulsion
system utilizing my existing Saildrive.
There are many people who now own boats with inboard
engines that are approaching the end of their service lives.
Repowering with a new diesel would cost more that the value
of the boat in today's market.
Repowering with electric has many advantages.
It will be cheaper and easier to convert. It will take up less space,
run quieter and cooler without the exhaust smells. You do not
need to warm it up, just put it in gear if needed. That is a handy
feature for those of us that often sail in an out of the slip.
Electric may not be the way forward for those that use their boats
as powerboats with auxillery sails, but for those who are content to
sail most of the time, it should be ideal.

 

[kenn]

Most of the folks that want this have not been able to keep a standard motor running and seem to somehow think they will be able to keep this running

I have looked at many of the sights selling kits and the motors seem to be rated like shop-vacs you know the one with 6hp that plug into a 15 amp outlet.

The current state of the art is forktrucks which have gone to 48 a volt DC battery running and AC motor as DC motor brushes are a never ending issue item

Here is an example of how I think this technology will evolve.

On the maintenance issue, the highest-maintenance item will continue to be the combustion engine, and because it can now be located in more accessible areas, the maintenance may actually become easier. Batteries are the next-weakest component, but the technology exists to properly manage the battery charge/discharge cycles. It's not a harder problem than managing the battery bank of today's large cruiser. The electric propulsion motor should run for several years without failure.

 

[Ross]

Besides the drive motor and the battery bank you will have all of the charging system and the motor controllers to deal with. If you can wire a three way relay controlled circuit you might be able to maintain an electric propulsion system on a boat.
A three way relay controlled circuit willl have two stations with momentary contact start stop switches and one latching relay to control the load.

 

[tommays]

I look after a fleet of CURRENT forktrucks both electric and propane as well as walk behinds and floor scrubbers .

I can ASSURE the electric units have FAR more issues that are hard to repiar and the controls require a PC to see whats UP .

Never mind the never ending battey PMs on units that get that type of daily use

 

[kenn]

... ya gotta beeelieeeeveeee!!

Besides the drive motor and the battery bank you will have all of the charging system and the motor controllers to deal with. If you can wire a three way relay controlled circuit you might be able to maintain an electric propulsion system on a boat.
A three way relay controlled circuit willl have two stations with momentary contact start stop switches and one latching relay to control the load.

Ideally, a hybrid drive system would be a package that includes the appropriate motor and charge controllers. I also expect that the control stations would be remote controls for a central solid-state inverter/controller.

I look after a fleet of CURRENT forktrucks both electric and propane as well as walk behinds and floor scrubbers .

I can ASSURE the electric units have FAR more issues that are hard to repiar and the controls require a PC to see whats UP .

Never mind the never ending battey PMs on units that get that type of daily use

Electric forklifts have a hard life, for sure. Constant starting and stopping, a hydraulic pump as well as a propulsion motor, and the batteries have a full charge/discharge cycle nearly every day.

I expect that a marine hybrid propulsion system would not have the same levels of stress. In particular, since the genny would be running, the batteries should not have to cycle deeply.

 

[Ross]

Ideally, a hybrid drive system would be a package that includes the appropriate motor and charge controllers. I also expect that the control stations would be remote controls for a central solid-state inverter/controller.



Electric forklifts have a hard life, for sure. Constant starting and stopping, a hydraulic pump as well as a propulsion motor, and the batteries have a full charge/discharge cycle nearly every day.

I expect that a marine hybrid propulsion system would not have the same levels of stress. In particular, since the genny would be running, the batteries should not have to cycle deeply.

And would you be able to troubleshoot and repair such a system?

Could anyone find a hybrid system easier to maintain than a diesel engine and a gearbox transmission?

For a harbor bound water taxi electric propulsion would be ideal but for days and weeks away from shore power them will never be the first choice among boaters.

 

[COOL]

And would you be able to troubleshoot and repair such a system?

Could anyone find a hybrid system easier to maintain than a diesel engine and a gearbox transmission?

For a harbor bound water taxi electric propulsion would be ideal but for days and weeks away from shore power them will never be the first choice among boaters.

I think that the answer to both questions is Yes.
And the last statement basically describes how 80% of boats are used.
The inboard is warmed up for 15 minutes, the boat is motored clear of
the slip for 5 minutes, sails up motor off.
People had the same sort off arguments for the EV1 electric car.
It only has a 60-70 mile range. Well guess what, it takes me a week
to rack up that many miles. An EV1 would work fine for me.
As Solar and Battery technologies advance,
I believe electric propulsion
has a much brighter future
than you portend.

 

[kenn]

And would you be able to troubleshoot and repair such a system?

Could anyone find a hybrid system easier to maintain than a diesel engine and a gearbox transmission?

For a harbor bound water taxi electric propulsion would be ideal but for days and weeks away from shore power them will never be the first choice among boaters.

Well, by trade, yeah

Seriously though, the common electrical failure points are going to be mostly the same - connections, bad batteries. Remember I'm talking about a diesel-electric hybrid. I agree that the control circuitry is a potential weak point, so an electromechanical means of control, eg your relay, would be a helpful backup. maybe with a choice of off, quarter, half, full.

BTW The Fischer-Panda hybrid site indicated that their Diesel-electric system uses less fuel and weighs LESS than a comparable diesel direct system, due to more efficient use of the diesel as a generator. Their weight comparison doesn't include batteries.

 

[druid]

I've been looking at hybrids and pure electric propulsion for some time. One advantage Catalina mentioned is that most cruising boats currently have TWO engines: one for propulstion, one for genset. Combine them, add a hulking inverter, and run your A/C, your stove, AND your propulsion from electricity. Looking purely at propulsion, it's not that effective, but as a Total Package...

It also allows you to run in "pure electric" for short periods like when entering or leaving an anchorage, or fishing.

On small boats like my dinghy I'm electric all the way - no need for dangerous, smelly, noisy outboards!

druid

 

[Stu Jackson]

...is that most cruising boats currently have TWO engines: one for propulstion, one for genset.

Could be those without gensets use solar and don't need two stinkin' messy noisy engines.

 

[COOL]

Could be those without gensets use solar and don't need two stinkin' messy noisy engines.

It is definitely possible to run an electric only system on a smaller,
lighter sail boat. Your powering range would likely be limited to 4-5 hours
at a moderate speed.
The system I am considering would rely on keeping the batteries
charged up with shore power in the slip. On the hook, solar panels
will provide slow regeneration, free wheeling the prop while sailing will add
a few amps as well.

 

[BioAndy]

It is definitely possible to run an electric only system on a smaller,
lighter sail boat. Your powering range would likely be limited to 4-5 hours
at a moderate speed.
The system I am considering would rely on keeping the batteries
charged up with shore power in the slip. On the hook, solar panels
will provide slow regeneration, free wheeling the prop while sailing will add
a few amps as well.

Cool,

I've been looking around at a few electric propulsion systems for myself. Proposals I've received range widely in design and cost. Can I ask what system you are considering?

Andy

 

[COOL]

Cool,

I've been looking around at a few electric propulsion systems for myself. Proposals I've received range widely in design and cost. Can I ask what system you are considering?

Andy

At this point I am considering devising my own system,
with the assistance of some one that has already created
a successful electric system for his own boat.
If that does not come together, the Electric Yacht
system looks like a reasonable option.

 

[Ross]

Just take the system from a golf cart and put it in a boat. Batteries, controls, charger and motor. Size your propellor to the motor speed and hp.
Electric heat for cooking is the worst posible source.

 

[BioAndy]

Thanks, Cool,

The Electric Yacht system also seems reasonable for my sailing style. It is currently at the top of my list so far. Still doing some investigating before committing.
Good luck with your project - keep us posted.

Andy