Hello, Where can I find information on a number of 30-34' sailboats from the early 80's? I would like more information on Irwin, Endeavour, Pearson, Tartan, Newport, Islander, Oday, etc. (I already know the Catalina line). I currently have a Catalina 22, and I am thinking of moving up to a bigger boat, something in the 30' range. My budget is about $20-25K. Is it possible to rank the boats in order, or at least give me some generalizations? From looking at pictures and reading ads, they all seem to be about the same. The one notable expection is Siedelman, which must be junk considering how cheap they are. I have done some internet searches, and I turned up an Endeavour site, and an Irwin site, but that will take a long time. Then again, I do have all winter! Thanks, Barry
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someone else here posted this
http://image-ination.com/sailcalc.html I have found it to be pretty interesting.
http://image-ination.com/sailcalc.html I have found it to be pretty interesting.
not the same
Oday owners have their own website--just click at the top of this page. I would rate the Endeavor, Pearson and Tartan as being a cut above the rest, but that's just my own opinion.
Oday owners have their own website--just click at the top of this page. I would rate the Endeavor, Pearson and Tartan as being a cut above the rest, but that's just my own opinion.
Different approach?
I would go to YachtWorld and type in my parameters, mainly lengths and budget. See what pops up, study the pictures, might even be some near you to go see. Point is there are a lot more manufacturers out there than the ones you listed. I tried with a range of $20k to $25k for 30-footers and got 199 hits. Seidelmanns were not bad boats, main rap is they went out of business. There is a 37 in our marina, been for sale a long time. It has nice lines and a nice interior.
I would go to YachtWorld and type in my parameters, mainly lengths and budget. See what pops up, study the pictures, might even be some near you to go see. Point is there are a lot more manufacturers out there than the ones you listed. I tried with a range of $20k to $25k for 30-footers and got 199 hits. Seidelmanns were not bad boats, main rap is they went out of business. There is a 37 in our marina, been for sale a long time. It has nice lines and a nice interior.
Yachtworld
Hi Ed, I did go to Yachtworld and that's where I came up with my list. The problem I have is I have no idea if some boats are tender, have endemic problems with delamination, carry too little sail, are more prone to blisters, or, looking at positive things, tend to be faster, use superior materials, have a better design, etc. A general purpose ranking, like Steve's comments that Pearson, Tartan, and Endeavour are (in his opinion) better, helps me out. Being that I have all winter I will probably learn more, but it helps to have a starting point. Since I'm familiar with the Catalina line, that is my comparison point. Thanks again, Barry
Hi Ed, I did go to Yachtworld and that's where I came up with my list. The problem I have is I have no idea if some boats are tender, have endemic problems with delamination, carry too little sail, are more prone to blisters, or, looking at positive things, tend to be faster, use superior materials, have a better design, etc. A general purpose ranking, like Steve's comments that Pearson, Tartan, and Endeavour are (in his opinion) better, helps me out. Being that I have all winter I will probably learn more, but it helps to have a starting point. Since I'm familiar with the Catalina line, that is my comparison point. Thanks again, Barry
Sailnet
Go to the Sailnet site, (link below) and look at Boat Check in left hand column. These are owner reviews which are always biased but you can glean info from them on occassion.
Go to the Sailnet site, (link below) and look at Boat Check in left hand column. These are owner reviews which are always biased but you can glean info from them on occassion.
Islander Yachts
Check out www.islandersailboats.com for the story on Islander Yachts. These are well made boats, and can be found at reasonable prices (but then I own an Islander 30). Like all other used goods, caveat emptor and a survey are the rule. Also sailnet has an islander email discussion list that is fairly active.
Check out www.islandersailboats.com for the story on Islander Yachts. These are well made boats, and can be found at reasonable prices (but then I own an Islander 30). Like all other used goods, caveat emptor and a survey are the rule. Also sailnet has an islander email discussion list that is fairly active.
Siedelman,made some race lite wt.
But most realy fast boats are lite built,but well built(in most cases),if done for racing. You will get a few jerks that just don't know why a boat is not as heavly built,and run there mouth! Siedelman's are good boats ,each design was done do a job,it doses well! You will run on to review's done by men that never sailed or even saw the boat,only a drawing of it,and with this great amount of info,did a review!Ha
But most realy fast boats are lite built,but well built(in most cases),if done for racing. You will get a few jerks that just don't know why a boat is not as heavly built,and run there mouth! Siedelman's are good boats ,each design was done do a job,it doses well! You will run on to review's done by men that never sailed or even saw the boat,only a drawing of it,and with this great amount of info,did a review!Ha
Siedelman
I currently crew on a Siedelman 30T with a shoal keel. This is the cruising version of the 29.9 I can state with great conviction, the Siedelman is constructed like the proverbial brick _ _ _ _ house. In my opinion, there are few, if any design flaws that generate any weaknesses to these fine vessels. The position of the mainsheet, traveler, genoa car tracks, and winches are all excellent, although primarily set up for two to three crew members in addition to a helmsman. The mainsheet arrangement in which the fiddle blocks are attached about three-quarters to four fifths of the way down along the boom toward the aft end and then lead directly down to the traveler positioned just behind the companionway is perfect. However, they do experience problems similar to those found on other sea craft. For example, the large flat Plexiglas windows along the aft part of the cabin which are secured by many self tapping screws, are subject to leaking and must, like nearly any other item screwed into the topsides, be re-bedded from time to time. As this task is fairly time consuming, owners do not always attend to this maintenance and severe damage to the core occurs. I will admit that the interior of a Siedelman is probably not well thought out. The head liner tends to fall off leaving a rather poor appearing brown fiberglass mat overhead that is dismal to look at hence probably leading to their inexpensive price. Interiors sell boats, and the interior of a used Siedelman practically ruins any chances of its being sold for anywhere near where boats of similar size and age are sold. Further, the Siedelman likes to get over to about twenty to almost thirty degrees to get into her “grove” and as such is not a great “family” or comfortable cruising boat. Great for young men but will generally displease others. This boat should never have been offered with a shoal keel. With its tendency to require a substantial amount of heeling, its ability to point is nearly non-existent and frequently causes the shoal keel that I crew on to loose races during upwind legs. As the manufacturer is out of business this means there is little, if any, technical assistance available to a Siedelman especially with so few boats made. Also few owners with whom to chat up problems, repairs, improvements, etc. Hence, while Siedelmans are great boats, there are too few of them, coupled with their he man sailing characteristics and usually dismal interiors means they will never command the price they otherwise deserve.
I currently crew on a Siedelman 30T with a shoal keel. This is the cruising version of the 29.9 I can state with great conviction, the Siedelman is constructed like the proverbial brick _ _ _ _ house. In my opinion, there are few, if any design flaws that generate any weaknesses to these fine vessels. The position of the mainsheet, traveler, genoa car tracks, and winches are all excellent, although primarily set up for two to three crew members in addition to a helmsman. The mainsheet arrangement in which the fiddle blocks are attached about three-quarters to four fifths of the way down along the boom toward the aft end and then lead directly down to the traveler positioned just behind the companionway is perfect. However, they do experience problems similar to those found on other sea craft. For example, the large flat Plexiglas windows along the aft part of the cabin which are secured by many self tapping screws, are subject to leaking and must, like nearly any other item screwed into the topsides, be re-bedded from time to time. As this task is fairly time consuming, owners do not always attend to this maintenance and severe damage to the core occurs. I will admit that the interior of a Siedelman is probably not well thought out. The head liner tends to fall off leaving a rather poor appearing brown fiberglass mat overhead that is dismal to look at hence probably leading to their inexpensive price. Interiors sell boats, and the interior of a used Siedelman practically ruins any chances of its being sold for anywhere near where boats of similar size and age are sold. Further, the Siedelman likes to get over to about twenty to almost thirty degrees to get into her “grove” and as such is not a great “family” or comfortable cruising boat. Great for young men but will generally displease others. This boat should never have been offered with a shoal keel. With its tendency to require a substantial amount of heeling, its ability to point is nearly non-existent and frequently causes the shoal keel that I crew on to loose races during upwind legs. As the manufacturer is out of business this means there is little, if any, technical assistance available to a Siedelman especially with so few boats made. Also few owners with whom to chat up problems, repairs, improvements, etc. Hence, while Siedelmans are great boats, there are too few of them, coupled with their he man sailing characteristics and usually dismal interiors means they will never command the price they otherwise deserve.
There are 40 such boats
reviewed in the two volumes of "Practical Boat Buying" published by "Practical Sailor", and another 9 that are 35s. Some you have already mentioned, some you probably haven't heard of and won't ever see. Though pricey ($40 when I bought mine several years ago), these volumes have given me many hours of good reading and lots of good ideas - they cover boats from 20 to 64 feet, with emphasis in the 25 to 40 foot range. The reviews contain comments by owners (sometimes critical) and detailed info on each boat reviewed, usually covering several pages. One you didn't mention was Ericson - they have a good reputation for quality and an excellent website: EricsonYachts.com and several forums with lots of owner input.
reviewed in the two volumes of "Practical Boat Buying" published by "Practical Sailor", and another 9 that are 35s. Some you have already mentioned, some you probably haven't heard of and won't ever see. Though pricey ($40 when I bought mine several years ago), these volumes have given me many hours of good reading and lots of good ideas - they cover boats from 20 to 64 feet, with emphasis in the 25 to 40 foot range. The reviews contain comments by owners (sometimes critical) and detailed info on each boat reviewed, usually covering several pages. One you didn't mention was Ericson - they have a good reputation for quality and an excellent website: EricsonYachts.com and several forums with lots of owner input.
Ericson
Hi, Thanks for all the info so far. I had not heard of Ericson, but I did a quick look, and the boat seems very nice. It does seem to be more than the others, but may be worth it. One quick question I have is that the mainsheet and travel on the Ericson, and on some other boats I have seen, runs right in front of the companionway. Doesn't that make it difficult to get into the cabin when underway? I think that the Catalina 30 position, on top of the cabin, is a much better location. What am I missing? Thanks again, Barry
Hi, Thanks for all the info so far. I had not heard of Ericson, but I did a quick look, and the boat seems very nice. It does seem to be more than the others, but may be worth it. One quick question I have is that the mainsheet and travel on the Ericson, and on some other boats I have seen, runs right in front of the companionway. Doesn't that make it difficult to get into the cabin when underway? I think that the Catalina 30 position, on top of the cabin, is a much better location. What am I missing? Thanks again, Barry
Traveler location
Hi Barry - You'll see most boats that are better suited for cruising with the traveler above the companionway out of the way. This works fine, but the drawbacks are less control and mid-boom sheeting (less leverage). The cockpit mounted travelers usually have a longer track (allowing more adjustment) and are closer to the helmsman for easier adjusting. This is better suited for racing. Sometimes the traveler is farther aft in the cockpit to allow for end boom sheeting. You'll find all boats are a compromise, but I agree that for most people it makes sense to have the traveler out of the cockpit for safety reasons. Have fun in your search! Trevor
Hi Barry - You'll see most boats that are better suited for cruising with the traveler above the companionway out of the way. This works fine, but the drawbacks are less control and mid-boom sheeting (less leverage). The cockpit mounted travelers usually have a longer track (allowing more adjustment) and are closer to the helmsman for easier adjusting. This is better suited for racing. Sometimes the traveler is farther aft in the cockpit to allow for end boom sheeting. You'll find all boats are a compromise, but I agree that for most people it makes sense to have the traveler out of the cockpit for safety reasons. Have fun in your search! Trevor
Bridgedeck
Had Beneteau move my traveler from cabin top to bridgedeck when they built the boat. It may be in the way some but the controll and the ease the wife has in trimming makes it worth while.
Had Beneteau move my traveler from cabin top to bridgedeck when they built the boat. It may be in the way some but the controll and the ease the wife has in trimming makes it worth while.
Agree with Tom
There is a little inconvenience attached to having a "knee-knocker" traveler set-up on the bridge deck, but not as much as you would think. After a while you don't really notice it. The increase in convenience and control is well worth it. If you ever decided to race your boat, even in real low-key events, you'd appreciate the difference. Ericsons are now serviced by Pacific Seacraft, another site that has some info on them. My '76 is still real solid and races competitively with some newer, larger, and much pricier boats.
There is a little inconvenience attached to having a "knee-knocker" traveler set-up on the bridge deck, but not as much as you would think. After a while you don't really notice it. The increase in convenience and control is well worth it. If you ever decided to race your boat, even in real low-key events, you'd appreciate the difference. Ericsons are now serviced by Pacific Seacraft, another site that has some info on them. My '76 is still real solid and races competitively with some newer, larger, and much pricier boats.
Seidelmann 30T
I'm about to buy a 1986 Seidelmann 30T and was glad to see the message by Bayard Gross. Does anyone know where I can get additional information on these boats? Are any brochures or manuals available? Jim Pilotte n3zpl@comcast.net
I'm about to buy a 1986 Seidelmann 30T and was glad to see the message by Bayard Gross. Does anyone know where I can get additional information on these boats? Are any brochures or manuals available? Jim Pilotte n3zpl@comcast.net
S 30T info
Seidelmann 25 Ron Lee 25 Beech St. Morton, PA 19070 610-543-8877 RLee623517@aol.com Hope this may help,it's what I found on web fast. Seidelmann 29-9 Louis Stubb 422 Glenmere Avenue Neptune, NJ 07753 732-774-1208 Fax: 732-988-8912 JLTek@aol.com
Seidelmann 25 Ron Lee 25 Beech St. Morton, PA 19070 610-543-8877 RLee623517@aol.com Hope this may help,it's what I found on web fast. Seidelmann 29-9 Louis Stubb 422 Glenmere Avenue Neptune, NJ 07753 732-774-1208 Fax: 732-988-8912 JLTek@aol.com
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