Sail Trimmin'

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Jun 28, 2009
312
hunter 23 Lake Hefner
I've had my boat for 1 yr and have just got my new main. I thought I'd try to see how well it pointed (I've never really tried to do this before because I knew my main was somewhat used up). Now, I do have a traveller, but it doesn't have any lines attached to it so it is harder to adjust on the fly. I can adjust it after I tack but in heavier air this makes manuevering around in the cockpit dicey, especially when soloing.
On any given day, I tack through the wind and let the jib and main slack slightly more than when I was on the previous tack. Then after I complete the tack, I pull in the main. I realize that this isn't the most efficient way of tacking, but when there are others in the cockpit it is easier and kinder to avoid heeling too much by a gust or tacking too far.
Sooo, after tacking, the mainsheet reaches a point where it won't draw the main any closer to midline, jib sheet as well. So, I head upwind again to allow the main and jib to luff so I can tighten the main and jib sheets? Seems like if I were a pro I'd be able to tack slower and do this on the initial attempt, but I'm afraid it'd take too long. What are the pro's thoughts?

TIA
Brad

BTW. I can point 40-45 degrees to the wind per the compass.
 
Oct 6, 2008
857
Hunter, Island Packet, Catalina, San Juan 26,38,22,23 Kettle Falls, Washington
It sounds like trying to make ice cream out of horse poop. Why not take the time to correctly rig the boat first. Trying to devise somewhat risky procedures to work around known defects is simply wrong. With others aboard it could become quickly dangerous.
I'd recomemnd correcting the rigging first and then practicing the use of these controls, by yourself or with a crewman, until you are comfortable and able to sail proficiently. Then entertain others.
Ray
 
Jun 28, 2009
312
hunter 23 Lake Hefner
It sounds like trying to make ice cream out of horse poop. Why not take the time to correctly rig the boat first. Trying to devise somewhat risky procedures to work around known defects is simply wrong. With others aboard it could become quickly dangerous.
I'd recomemnd correcting the rigging first and then practicing the use of these controls, by yourself or with a crewman, until you are comfortable and able to sail proficiently. Then entertain others.
Ray
Never said I was uncomfortable, and IMHO I can sail proficiently. I was perhaps looking for a different take on getting the jib and main closer to midline without running the risk of a quick heel on a tack while NOT using the traveller. If by rigging the boat "correctly" you mean modifying my traveller, I am not interested at this time in adding blocks to the traveller and running lines around my cockpit that would invariably make moving around more difficult for the passengers. I didn't indicate directly that I DON'T use my traveller to help trim the sails because of the lack of ease in which to do so in heavier wind. I was, however, wondering if my procedure for tacking then going directly upwind to pull the main and jib closer to midline was acceptable. I'm sorry if my post seemed confusing.
So all that aside, I feel that my boating environment is Very safe.
Thank you for your input!
 
May 25, 2004
958
Hunter 260 Pepin, WI
Peptobysmol, I often point higher into the wind to take the power out and allow me to trim in the sheets without a lot of muscle.

I also do it to allow the first mate to go below safely and get me more rum :)

I see nothing wrong with the procedure you described. There's no reason to tack exactly on course with all sails in exact trim when sailing for recreation. Only highly drilled racing crews can accomplish that. You certainly don't need to add more gear to allow you to achieve this lofty goal. After tack adjustments are just fine.

It sounds like your new main is helping, since you are getting up to 40 degrees.
 

Alan

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Jun 2, 2004
4,174
Hunter 35.5 LI, NY
I'm with Ray on this. You're trying to re-invent the wheel or you just don't understand the procedure on how to tack. The traveler, if it is working, is all you need to adjust when tacking the main. If you have a pin style PINA traveler you would be far better severed to have a line adjustable traveler that you can actually use. Dumping the mainsheet on a tack each time is a completely wrong procedure. Your new main will prematurely age using your tacking technique. A tack should be much more efficient and easily accomplished.

To tack your jib leave the sheet in place allowing the jib to backwind slightly till the bow goes head to wind. At that point you can release the working sheet and take up the new sheet
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,760
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Drop the traveler before you tack, then you don't have to yank it up at all. That'll give you time to sheet the jib more efficiently.
 
Dec 4, 2008
264
Other people's boats - Milford, CT
I would say leave the traveler centered ( since it can't be adjusted under load ) and leave the main sheet alone during the tack. Then you only have to deal with the jib sheet during the tack.

Depending on the size of the jib, you might be able to get it sheeted in BEFORE you complete the turn and fill the sail with wind. If you turn slower enough. Otherwise you need a winch to trim it in under load.

If you are trying to sail gently for guests in the cockpit, good for you. But you are not going to be sailing at max efficiency. You seem to have worked out a good compromise. If you want to train up a bit. Go with some people who are active crew and willing to work.
 
Jan 2, 2008
547
Hunter 33 (Cherubini design Forked River, Barnegat Bay, NJ
I believe Brad is concerned with getting the BOOM up to center by pulling the traveler to windward after each tack. In a perfect world we would simply have the hired muscle in the matching shirts and deck shoes do it. My Hunter 33 is set up with all sorts of controls to enable me to do this on the fly with little or no effort from behind the wheel. My Hunter 260 was not, nor is my Mac 25. I have no qualms about heading up to decrease loads so I can make adjustments. At my age it puts less strain on me which translates to the ability to sail more. In my not-so-humble opinion, as I understand it, what you're doing is just fine. If it works for you, do it!
 
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Jan 26, 2007
308
Norsea 27 Cleveland
I'm with Todd. If you don't have a working traveler then sail as though you had none at all. Is there a reason you can't rig lines to the traveler? Do you use a vang? Does the 23 have a centerboard and do you use it? If you are having trouble pointing there may be other solutions.
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,045
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Yikes! Again with the traveler!

:eek: Actually, those traveler cars with the controls and all are really expensive, so I can understand the reluctance to add them to a 23' boat, especially when you consider how crowded the cockpit can feel as it is. I'm with Todd & Phil, there should be no reason to ease the main if you just center the vang (edit: I meant traveler!), even if you just do that before tacking.

I also have the problem with my jib, though, in my case it is because the track and fairlead is directly underneath the lifelines on the rail and I have a deck sweeping genny with the clew tacked down below the lifeline when close hauled. Typically, if my wife is at the helm (and she usually tacks over too far so we have to point up again), I have to winch in the sheet to get the clew to the lifeline, but since the clew is on the outside and the sheet is on the inside, I can't sheet any further. So then I have to go forward, clear the foot of the sail off the lifeline and then finish sheeting in.

If I'm at the helm and I don't want to disturb my wife from sunning herself :redface:, then I will often tack over and very gingerly point upwind to get the genny to luff just inside the lifeline so I can sheet in and cleat down without having to use the winch handle. It's not efficient but it keeps the crew from snarling!
 
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Feb 26, 2004
22,760
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Good point, Scott. We do the very same thing when it's very windy out on the Bay here. Feathering up makes trimming the jib sheet a lot easier.
 
Jun 9, 2008
1,771
- -- -Bayfield
I suppose my input is not needed here, but you should know it is not a lot of time and money to make your traveler car more adjustable which will enhance your sailing experience and it will not use up any more space to make it more difficult for your crew to get about in the cockpit. You can use a traveler control line that is continuous and that can be reached from either side of the boat so that you can uncleat the leeward side and bring the car up to the windward side without moving anymore than you do when you go from side to side in each tack. Generally speaking, the lighter the wind the higher to weather the car should be affixed and as the wind pipes up, you ease the traveler car to leeward. By being able to bring the car to weather, you can find that centerpoint you are looking for without trimming the main each time. And as you tack you don't have to ease the main (going to weather), but only have to adjust the traveler car which is so easy if you have controls and almost impossible if you don't. If you are sailing along in gusty winds to weather and you are sitting on the high side of the boat (windward side) to help flatten the boat out, and a gust comes along, all you have to do is quickly let the car fall to leeward to spill the wind and then pull it back up when the gust goes by. This is much more efficient than dumping the sheet and then trying to pull it in again. Usually when you are sailing in very heavy air you have the vang on hard. If you get into a knockdown situation you need to dump the traveler and uncleat the vang right away. This will help you gain control over the boat again quickly. When the gust goes by, then tighten these up again.
 
Jul 18, 2009
274
marine clipper 21 ft santa ana Southern Lakes,Yukon
I would say leave the traveler centered ( since it can't be adjusted under load ) and leave the main sheet alone during the tack. Then you only have to deal with the jib sheet during the tack.

Depending on the size of the jib, you might be able to get it sheeted in BEFORE you complete the turn and fill the sail with wind. If you turn slower enough. Otherwise you need a winch to trim it in under load.

If you are trying to sail gently for guests in the cockpit, good for you. But you are not going to be sailing at max efficiency. You seem to have worked out a good compromise. If you want to train up a bit. Go with some people who are active crew and willing to work.
x2 on what Todd suggests
 
Jan 26, 2007
308
Norsea 27 Cleveland
... If I'm at the helm and I don't want to disturb my wife from sunning herself :redface:, then I will often tack over and very gingerly point upwind to get the genny to luff just inside the lifeline so I can sheet in and cleat down without having to use the winch handle. It's not efficient but it keeps the crew from snarling!
We seem to be in the same camp whilst above the sole. This is an excellent example of the difference between racing and, well, every other kind of sailing I guess. Yours is a cruiser's solution. I also use the helm to move things around as opposed to going forward. What's the hurry. A racing solution, assuming everything was optimally rigged, would be to have a bow man at the ready to get that sucker in the correct position as rapidly as possible. Racers like to power up before trimming in after a tack, so the sail would almost certainly be coming in from outside the rail.

Also, I thought he has the cars and track but not the control lines. Isn't that correct? If all he's missing is the lines, what's the hold up?
 
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