Sail trim short course.

[25yearslater]

Hello all. Now that I have restored this boat and am able to go from point A to B I would like to improve my trimming techniques. I am not a racer and will never be yet I do enjoy getting good performance from my boat. YOT is an Oday 27 with new main, 100% and soon to be 140% and Asymetrical. My last boat 25 years ago was an Oday 22 which was devoid of many of the sail control paraphenalia of the 27. Foot lines on a jib? Sail twist? Track car adjustment? You get the idea. I have been able to get YOT moving beyond it's hull speed operating with main only so I guess I can expect better with an improvement in technique. Let's keep it simple at first as this will be an ongoing process. Thanks.

 

[shemandr]

If you can get your boat moving beyond hull speed with only the main, maybe you should be giving us trim tips!
I think the best thing to improve you're trimming is too learn what good sail shape is. You have to understand what you are trying to accomplish.
The sail controls, other than tuning the rig, I like best are halyard tension and outhaul. For a masthead rig, with dacron sails, these two controls give a lot of bang for the buck. I can't stand halyards that are stretchy. You can never control the sail shape and everything gets worse when it breezes up. The outhaul gives a relatively easy way to add or subtract sail plan power. On fractional rigs I would add backstay tension as a quick easy way to add or subtract sail plan power. And, of course the jib lead position is important - but to me on cruising boats looking to improve sail shapes, not for racing, I would place jib lead placement below halyard tension and outhaul as paramount sail controls.
Downwind with a asymmetric is another story. Asymmetric on an ODay? Does that include a sprit boom? Seems a little like taking a gun to knife fight.

 

[Brian D]

I am going to move this over to our Sail Trim section. Don Guillette is our residential sail trim expert. It should get more visibility there.

 

[25yearslater]

Thanks Brian for the move. Love the knife fight analogy Shemandr. Here on Lake Ontario it seems we have two kinds of wind. Very little or very much. The asym is for light downwind conditions while the 140 is for beam reach forward on those days. Just the little extra to keep things interesting. Exceeding the hull speed wasn't that dramatic as it may have appeared. The wind was upwards of 15 with gusts to 25 or so. Really nice as it was offshore which kept the chop down but bouncy enough to break the monotony. I have no clue as to what the footline on the 100% is all about. Leach lines I have some idea but not proficient in their use. My main has telltales which the 22 didn't as well as a leach line the 22 didn't. Halyards are Sta-set so keeping the tension on the luff is easy enough and this gal has halyard winches which makes life much more pleasant. The draft thing is an area of some concern. My outhaul is capable of drawing it flat or leaving the foot less full. This might be a really good place to start.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Why not buy Don's Sail Trim Chart and/or the BOOK?

Really good stuff. You could also read back on some of Don's Sail Trim topics. Great material there.

 

[25yearslater]

Thanks Stu. I was considering his book on sail trim. My problem is knowing what the right questions are. Once I get that squared away I should be able to respond somewhat intelligently when posing a question. I have the do this-boat does that down fairly well yet, what is it called when I do that is a really fuzzy area for me. Once I muddle through that I look forward to really getting the boat pointing, reaching and running like we stole something.

 

[Don Guillette]

25years later: You're right and just like all sailors or anyone beginning any venture, you "don't know what you don't know" and you're going about learning sail trim in the wrong manner. You're focusing on a couple of sail trim controls, one of which, the halyard, is the least important. The outhaul is very important but the first thing you have to undersatand is WHAT ALL the sail trim controls for the main and jib are adjusting, which happens to be draft depth, draft position, twist and angle of attack. Next you have to learn WHICH sail trim controls on the main and jib adjust each of the 4 elements.

Do yourself a favor and buy the book and chart. You'll have a quicker learning curve. If you do get your boat pointing, reaching and running at 100% efficiency it will be because you just guessed right and you'll have no idea how to did it so you can duplicate it a second time.

 

[Don Guillette]

To further add to the topic -- Here's the problem with putting jib fairlead placement below the halyard in order of importance.The halyard only controls, along with the boom vang, outhaul, mainsheet and mast bend (assuming you can bend the mast and not rake it) DRAFT POSITION.

If you have a masthead rig, the engine of the boat is the jib. The fairleads are used to adjust all '4 element of sail trim" which are draft depth, draft position, twist and angle of attack. Fairlead placement is everything. So, to ignore the fairleads for a masthead or even a fractional rig is a big mistake.

 

[shemandr]

What Don says is true but there are plenty of cruising sailors who rarely if ever adjust their jib leads. I've been on many racing boats, who win, that set the jib leads for a leg of a race and do not micro-adjust it unless conditions change. If your jib halyard isn't set right no amount of dithering with the clew of the jib will result in a good flying sail.
So, I'll stick with my reply - but that's what a discussion is all about.

 

[YVRguy]

I'd like to order the sail trim chart from the store but I'm wondering about extra charges for shipping to Canada. Does anyone know? I have friends with mailboxes over the border but I don't want to go to that trouble unless I need to. Thanks

 

[woodster]

I'd like to order the sail trim chart from the store but I'm wondering about extra charges for shipping to Canada. Does anyone know? I have friends with mailboxes over the border but I don't want to go to that trouble unless I need to. Thanks

i get things from BC from time to time and have never noticed any unusual fees to be concerned about but that is come in to US not out...you can conferm shipping with SBO before you make the final order...SBO has never seemed like a pop corn suprise kind of company to me.....

regards

woody

 

[Don Guillette]

Shermandr: Trying to develop topics for the forum is a difficult process but you have provided me with a topic subject -- check it out shortly.

 

[Jared1048]

Don- I tried to purchase your book through amazon but it said it was unavailable? Must be a hot seller!

 

[Don Guillette]

Jared: Thank you for your interest in my products, which are sold through this website (SBO.com) and my website only at this time. I'm working with Amazon at this time and have some hoops to get through.

Both the book and chart are "hot sellers" -- I've sold over 9000 charts and 6000 books worldwide and to every country except China and the Soviet Union, maybe they don't sail there!! A couple of years ago a gentlemen at the Lake Havasu small boat convention spoke to me about selling my stuff in China and conducting seminars there. I bought him a few drinks and dinner but I think he was a con artist because I never heard from him again. My wife told me before dinner to not waste my money as he was full of crap and I should have listened to her!!

 

[Don Guillette]

yvrguy & woodster: I'm not sure how SBO.com is handling the shipping outside the US (I've sent an email to Phil and we should hear shortly) but here's how I handle it on items I ship. I used to have the exact cost to ship to all countries outside the US but that became too cumbersome to deal with so I went with one price for anywhere outside the US and I shipped FIRST CLASS. It's unfortunate Canada, our next door neighbor, get's lumped in with Australia/Europe but that's the way it is. Shipping to Australia is almost $9.00!! The Aussie's are happy to get the product at any price.

 

[JonnyQuest]

25yrs

Beyond catching wind and moving forward, the nuances of sail trim may be intuitive to some like Don G., but for others (like me) its like trying to sip from the firehose -- a lot to swallow.

Reading is great and the right sources like Dons is key. Read them and then use your knotmeter to see how each adjustment affects your speed while you are out.

Of course the more you get out there and practice the sooner it will undoubtedly come.

 

[25yearslater]

I agree Jonny. Sailing well is the art. While I have sailed in stuff that kept everyone else at the dock sailing with finesse is what I'm after. Can I sail well? At this point I still feel confidant. Sailing better, that is going to take some time. Today would have been one of the finesse days. We had the other wind. The 2 - 5 mph puffs that leave one sitting in the same place for hours while those who finesse their boats are still moving. So I cleaned YOT instead. Should be the most fun summer I have had in a long time. Just because I fixed the iron wind doesn't mean I want to use it.

 

[Don Guillette]

JonnyQuest: You have no idea what I went through to learn how to SAIL a silly sailboat!!

 

[25yearslater]

Got the book today. Had to spray some gelcoat for a buddy but I'm on page 11. So far so good. I'll pester the heck out of you soon enough with questions.

 

[25yearslater]

Get ready for a barage of new questions. My 140 and Asym are about to get a workout. Yes, lunacy runs in the family. So then, continuing on, let's play mug the maniac. All contestants win a henway. Here are the pictures from tonights soire. Wind - 9 from NE with a light chop or less than 1 foot. Occasional puffs to 11. Didn't use the the Asym. While the boat was moving well and I thought I was getting it right, what do you folks think?