Sail Trim Seminar

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May 17, 2004
2,111
Other Catalina 30 Tucson, AZ
Last week there were some questions from George B (Alameda, Ca) and I’ve been thinking of how to answer them. With many of the questions here on the sail trim forum I want to “stand back from the question and look at the big picture”. I’ll explain what I mean by that shortly. In most of the seminars I’ve conducted, folks always ask some questions before the class. Many times I tell them to hold the question because when we finish the 3 hour session they will know the answer to what they are asking. Sail trim is easy. Many years ago I did not think that way. I thought sail trim was the most confusing stuff I ever tried to learn. It is easy when presented in an orderly and logical manner. I can take any beginner and within 3 hours in a class and 3 hours on the water practicing the techniques make them into a high intermediate. George asked “in very light air I move the traveler up to the centerline. Will I gain power by applying the vang?”. This question involves 2 elements – ANGLE OF ATTACK and TWIST. By moving the traveler up you are applying power and by applying the vang you are reducing twist in the top of the sail so power does not spill out. Additionally, if you had a rigid vang you would set the boom about 10 degrees above horizontal. George also asked “at what point will the main become too flat ?”. This question involves DRAFT DEPTH. You can never totally flatten the sail but you want it as flat as possible because in light winds the air does not have enough power to get around the sail. How many times have you seen sailors belly out their main in light air and not go anywhere? The reason they don’t move is the wind can’t get around the sail. Another question was “in 10 to 15 knots I control twist by constant mainsheet tension and moving the traveler up and down?”. This question involves TWIST and ANGLE OF ATTACK. The traveler has nothing to do with twist. The travelers only function is to control angle of attack. The mainsheet is the secondary control for twist. The first is the boom vang. The problem with many of the question received on the sail trim forum is they are very specific but only apply to one wind speed and point of sail. Space does not permit me to answer the questions completely and I feel I am short changing the sailor. In other words, I want to “stand back from the question and answer the big picture”. Here’s the problem – there are 8 primary controls for the mainsail and 6 primary controls for the jib. These controls are adjusting 4 things and they are draft depth, draft position, twist and angle of attack. Unless you understand those 4 element completely, sail trim will never make any sense. In the first chapter of my book I explain those elements and tell you that if you don’t understand them don’t proceed until you do. Next, you have to know which of the 4 elements each mainsheet and jib control adjusts. If you don’t know your just guessing So here is the bottom line. When your dock neighbor asks you a question about sail trim the first thing you want to think about is what element is he talking about and which control is used to adjust that element. Half the time they are using the wrong one anyway!!
 
Jan 4, 2006
262
Catalina 36 MKII Buford, Ga.
one question

Well Don, thanks to you I understand and can execute these concepts...you present sail trim in a very organized and logical process...everyone should have a copy. In light airs, I understand wanting a flat mainsail and here's my question. In paragraph 5 you want as flat a sail as possible, but in paragraph 4 you want the rigid vang to hold up the boom 10 degrees (which would ease or add belly)...aren't these slightly contradictory? If I were in those conditions today on my boat, I would start out with the vang off (no vang tension), no topping lift and sail for awhile. Then I would use my topping lift to hold up the boom, sail awhile and compare results. What would you do?....I await your comments and from others on the board.
 
Jan 26, 2007
308
Norsea 27 Cleveland
Variety

Phil - Why is Don's book the only one in the Chandlery on sail trim? Do you really believe that it is the first, last and only word on the subject? I notice the other categories all have multiples selections.
 
May 17, 2004
2,111
Other Catalina 30 Tucson, AZ
10 Degrees On Boom Vang

Steve: There are a couple of things regarding sail trim that I just don't know why they work but they do. This 10 degree rise in the boom is one of them. 10 dgrees is really not a lot. Everything I write about was tested on my Catalina30. I tested a whole bunch of stuff. Some worked and some didn't. If it didn't work I dumped it. If a mate has a rigid vang it is installed so that at rest the 10 degrees is built in, so that when you start of from the dock you crank it down depending on the conditions. In very light air you ease the vang to give this thing that seems to work. The topping lifts primary function is to hold up the boom when the sail is flaked BUT in very light air the topping lift can be used as I explained. If I was sailing in very light air - say 2 to 3 knots - I would proceed exactly as you are suggesting. Try it and see what happens. You won't break the land/sea speed record (you have no wind in the first place)but you will see a small increase in speed.
 
May 17, 2004
2,111
Other Catalina 30 Tucson, AZ
Variety

I don't think Phil feels I am the first, last and only word on sail trim because I'm not BUT I am the only one who sits here day after day after day for the past 4 or 5 years answering questions on sail trim for FREE. I wonder if Dennis Connor, Gary Jobson, Steve Colgate or Bill Gladstone would be willing to do the same. With some of these comments I wonder why I even bother.
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,354
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Keep up the good work, Don

Many other reference are avilable anywhere else. Nice to see yours is here. BTW, the combination of mainsheet and vang for mainsail flateening is easily seen when you tighten up the mainsheet: the vang starts to go slack. Not everyone has the 10 degree rise built in. As Don suggests, Stephen, ya gotta play with it.
 
Jan 26, 2007
308
Norsea 27 Cleveland
Good business

Don - I really enjoy reading your posts here, as much as any of the many others. There is something to offer in all of them. Even questions or answers that are clearly misinformed can be worth reading to imagine the people behind them. Your last response here says something about you, too. Phil has touted the chandlery in recent threads, and I truly have wondered why he doesn't offer more sail trim books, a topic of interest to many forum members. As for your other comments, I wonder if you would put your name on that list. And I wonder if other regular contributors, here day after day (those generally on the receiving end of posts full of praise and gratitude), are discontented with the fee. By the way, I have your book too. I've always felt that it contains contradictory statements in parts. I'm glad that someone else brought it up here, right or wrong. It's not surprising that contradictions will appear, given your philosophy of trying to simplify and organize a topic that is so much richer from perspectives other than that of the novice sailor. Ease up there big guy, you get plenty of praise here, and business!
 
P

Pat T

Is Don's book available at

Barnes & Noble or other local book store or do I have to purchase it via this web site? Either way I plan to get the book. It will be my second book on the subject. Looking forward to it. And thank-you Don for the free advice.
 
Jun 2, 2004
649
Hunter 23.5 Calgary, Canada
May the Trim be with you

Hi Don - These last couple of years I've found I'm better off to put sailing out of my mind to make it through the long winter here. Do you remember my fever bout with "Fun with Vectors" a few years ago? As Spring approaches I'm on the home stretch now so I'm having a look here for the first time in awhile. My lake isn't thawed until the end of May, so in 30 more sleeps I'm off to the British Virgin Islands again for 10 days on a Beneteau 423. This time, I'm skippering my own boat! I ordered and gave a fresh copy of your book to my all-woman crew (that's another story) to study before the trip. I figure when we're down there we'll take a picture of us holding up your book and post it here when we're back. Maybe that'll start a tradition to showcase what exotic places you have helped us sail to. I'm looking forward to "having you along" on the trip and a big thanks for helping to get me there in the first place. All the best from The Great White North, Don! Rick
 

Phil Herring

Alien
Mar 25, 1997
4,924
- - Bainbridge Island
Sail trim books

We do feel Don's chart is very special, as it's designed to be a quick cockpit reference. That's a great idea and we know it's been helpful to many sailors. That said, we also carry 21 books that cover sail trim. Why they're not in the Sail Trim category I couldn't say; they're probably listed under sailing or racing. To find them use the link below and search on the word "trim."
 
Jan 4, 2006
262
Catalina 36 MKII Buford, Ga.
thanks Don...

thanks for the extra information regarding my question and for all the knowledge you bring to this board! By the way, I did install the Garhauer adjustable genoa fairleads...fantastic system and a great recommendation.
 
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