Don, This is probably a very dumb question but here goes anyway. Will your sail trim guide and chart work with my boat which has in mast furling? I have been looking everywhere for information on how to properly trim my sails for different conditions. I can find alot of info for "standard rigs" but I am not sure how much applies to me. Thanks in advance Grant
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Grant, The theory is the same, problem is you don't have all the sail controls that are needed to make the adjustments. In-mast furling gives you the advantage of being able to easily put your sail to bed, but takes away performance and trimming ability.
Sail trim
My Beneteau's sails (in mast furling main) were made by Neil Pryde, and they have lots of info about sail trim specific to my boat on their web site. Try your loft first, then maybe even Hunter. As Alan said, the theory is the same, but I would add that the differences are great enought that you do need to find out about them.
My Beneteau's sails (in mast furling main) were made by Neil Pryde, and they have lots of info about sail trim specific to my boat on their web site. Try your loft first, then maybe even Hunter. As Alan said, the theory is the same, but I would add that the differences are great enought that you do need to find out about them.
Alan, Randall, Thank you both for your responses, I understand the theories in sail shape, I am trying to get some knowledge on how you acomplish this with the rigging that I have. I will try the web site and Hunter, I have read everything on the SELDEN site but it was not alot of help. I don't really want to get into the argument about wether or not a furling main is better than on non-furling, I just want to learn to get the most out of the furling main I have. Thank you both very much. Grant
Sail controls for a furling main
Hello all, This is a topic that I have been interested in for several years. I use to race big time and was used to the usual sail controls that most of us have learned. My present boat, a Hunter 380 came with a furling main and I have had an interesting time learning how to use it. It has taken several years for me to learn the nuances of this main. Actually, those with a furling main have quite a bit of control on this sail. Let's start with sail hoist. It needs to be tight enough to be able to roll in and out of the mast. However, too tight and you get the usual wrinkles aft of the mast. Not good. So first adjust the hoist. The easy control is the out haul. Beling a loose footted main, you have any amount of possibilities with this sail. On a reach, you can have TWO jibs in effect. Let the outhaul go until it gets backwinded by the jib then bring it slightly in. And remember because you are going on a reach you want to move your jib blocks forward and you can do the same with the main by tightening the boom vang. Not too much tho' . It's really cool. Now before someone says that the roller furling main is 30 percent smaller because you don't have the leech in the sail, remember that you can have a taller main which is good in light airs. So how do I tighten the leech? You have the usual ways with the main sheet, the boom vang and to some degree the traveler. Now here is a control that most people don't realize they have--it took me several years to figure this one out and I'm still mad at myself for taking so long. It was right there all the time. Use you roller furling line as a sail control--it doesn't just roll up your sail. Instead of using the hoist and the outhaul to flatten your sail first start with the outhaul, then try roller furling the main without letting the outhual go. It will flatten the entire main perfectly. As the wind increases, this is the first thing I do--roll in the main. The next step is the try a little vang pressure which of course tightens the top of the sail. In light airs, particularly going down wind, you can increase boat speed by letting out on the traveler, the main sheet, and then try a little topping lift. It doesn't look great but you can pick up boat speed. You don't need a lot of topping lift but it works; it does bag the sail instead of lowering the hoist. I'm still learning to play with this control. Actually, I think I can shape the main just as well now but with different controls as I use to do with a more traditional main. And I'm going to say something that may upset some here on the list, but not having battens has made me a better sailer--I have to work at looking at the sail and making adjustments. I think I got lazy with full size battens. Just thought I add my opinion here... I wish you all the best. Les
Hello all, This is a topic that I have been interested in for several years. I use to race big time and was used to the usual sail controls that most of us have learned. My present boat, a Hunter 380 came with a furling main and I have had an interesting time learning how to use it. It has taken several years for me to learn the nuances of this main. Actually, those with a furling main have quite a bit of control on this sail. Let's start with sail hoist. It needs to be tight enough to be able to roll in and out of the mast. However, too tight and you get the usual wrinkles aft of the mast. Not good. So first adjust the hoist. The easy control is the out haul. Beling a loose footted main, you have any amount of possibilities with this sail. On a reach, you can have TWO jibs in effect. Let the outhaul go until it gets backwinded by the jib then bring it slightly in. And remember because you are going on a reach you want to move your jib blocks forward and you can do the same with the main by tightening the boom vang. Not too much tho' . It's really cool. Now before someone says that the roller furling main is 30 percent smaller because you don't have the leech in the sail, remember that you can have a taller main which is good in light airs. So how do I tighten the leech? You have the usual ways with the main sheet, the boom vang and to some degree the traveler. Now here is a control that most people don't realize they have--it took me several years to figure this one out and I'm still mad at myself for taking so long. It was right there all the time. Use you roller furling line as a sail control--it doesn't just roll up your sail. Instead of using the hoist and the outhaul to flatten your sail first start with the outhaul, then try roller furling the main without letting the outhual go. It will flatten the entire main perfectly. As the wind increases, this is the first thing I do--roll in the main. The next step is the try a little vang pressure which of course tightens the top of the sail. In light airs, particularly going down wind, you can increase boat speed by letting out on the traveler, the main sheet, and then try a little topping lift. It doesn't look great but you can pick up boat speed. You don't need a lot of topping lift but it works; it does bag the sail instead of lowering the hoist. I'm still learning to play with this control. Actually, I think I can shape the main just as well now but with different controls as I use to do with a more traditional main. And I'm going to say something that may upset some here on the list, but not having battens has made me a better sailer--I have to work at looking at the sail and making adjustments. I think I got lazy with full size battens. Just thought I add my opinion here... I wish you all the best. Les
Thanks so much Les
Les, thanks so much for your input. I think this is the first time that I have read any specific information on sail trim for in mast furling. I do have a question for you. Our prior boat was an H340 and the mast was about 52', our new boat is a H41 deck salon which has a mast height of 63' and has a displacement of about 20,000 lbs. I am quite surprised at how initially tender the new boat is. I know that the deck salon has more windage on the deck however the hull design has brought the weight lower below the water line. The boat seems to heel over to about 15-20 degrees in winds starting about 12-15 knots. I know that 15 degrees is not excessive, but we have been told that above that is not the most efficient for the boat. The boat does not have excessive weather helm when heeling like this but I am wondering if my sail trimming skills are the biggest handicap this beautiful boat has!
When the wind is picking up I am trying to make sure the sails are as flat as possible but if the wind direction is on the beam trimming with the traveler and even with the mainsheet just doesn't seem to be enough to get her back on her feet. I have both Don's book and chart which I am finding very helpful but I would like to having another way to handle this situation other than reefing the sail. As you probally have figured out I still have a rather steep learning curve on this boat. Thank you for any help you might be able to give me.
Les, thanks so much for your input. I think this is the first time that I have read any specific information on sail trim for in mast furling. I do have a question for you. Our prior boat was an H340 and the mast was about 52', our new boat is a H41 deck salon which has a mast height of 63' and has a displacement of about 20,000 lbs. I am quite surprised at how initially tender the new boat is. I know that the deck salon has more windage on the deck however the hull design has brought the weight lower below the water line. The boat seems to heel over to about 15-20 degrees in winds starting about 12-15 knots. I know that 15 degrees is not excessive, but we have been told that above that is not the most efficient for the boat. The boat does not have excessive weather helm when heeling like this but I am wondering if my sail trimming skills are the biggest handicap this beautiful boat has!
When the wind is picking up I am trying to make sure the sails are as flat as possible but if the wind direction is on the beam trimming with the traveler and even with the mainsheet just doesn't seem to be enough to get her back on her feet. I have both Don's book and chart which I am finding very helpful but I would like to having another way to handle this situation other than reefing the sail. As you probally have figured out I still have a rather steep learning curve on this boat. Thank you for any help you might be able to give me.Getting to know your boat is fun.....
Kristin, et.al., I've had 9 new boats and learning how to adjust the sails was different on all of them--you're the best thing on your boat. Enjoy learning the sail trim. First, modern day sailboats with board beams and tall sticks are tender and sail more efficently upright. I think the designers who went to the roller furling rigs were concerned that without the leech they would not have enough sail power so they added a taller stick. My Hunter 380 is a tender boat but we enjoy that characteristic. Reefing is not a bad thing to do. We reef often in winds of 15 knts. because we want to sail the boat upright. 10 to 15 degree heel and we start reefing. By the way I do most of my sail trim depending upon boat speed. I look at my sails, check boat speed, adjust something and then check to see if we're going faster or slower. And that also means change one sail characteristic at a time such as outhaul or traveler. Not both, because you will not know which did what. Your main is so big that you can afford to reef it earlier. Your reefed main will still probably be bigger than most mains that are on boats of the eighties when they had small mains and big genoas. I have a friend (H380) who has sailed in 25 knts on our bay with the main just a third of the way out. He went screaming around the bay having a great time. He reported (I watched him from my house) the boat handled well with no weather helm. Anyway, I try to sail my boat as close to upright as I can, EXCEPT in light airs when I want my sails to sleep, meaning not to move around much. Also in heavy airs, I don't use the boom vang as much on this boat and that allows me to have more twist at the top of my main. That allows more air to escape up high. Seems to work for me. I hope some of this has helped. It will take a while to learn what works best on your boat. With respect to Don's guide to sail trim, I believe we're going to need a new guide with regards to roller furling mains. It's another ball game so to speak. It has taken me awhile to get a handle on it and I thought I was fairly competent in sailing handling, but the roller furling main is different. But then there is the equally fascinating idea that I'm just getting dumber. Who knows. Enjoy! Les
Kristin, et.al., I've had 9 new boats and learning how to adjust the sails was different on all of them--you're the best thing on your boat. Enjoy learning the sail trim. First, modern day sailboats with board beams and tall sticks are tender and sail more efficently upright. I think the designers who went to the roller furling rigs were concerned that without the leech they would not have enough sail power so they added a taller stick. My Hunter 380 is a tender boat but we enjoy that characteristic. Reefing is not a bad thing to do. We reef often in winds of 15 knts. because we want to sail the boat upright. 10 to 15 degree heel and we start reefing. By the way I do most of my sail trim depending upon boat speed. I look at my sails, check boat speed, adjust something and then check to see if we're going faster or slower. And that also means change one sail characteristic at a time such as outhaul or traveler. Not both, because you will not know which did what. Your main is so big that you can afford to reef it earlier. Your reefed main will still probably be bigger than most mains that are on boats of the eighties when they had small mains and big genoas. I have a friend (H380) who has sailed in 25 knts on our bay with the main just a third of the way out. He went screaming around the bay having a great time. He reported (I watched him from my house) the boat handled well with no weather helm. Anyway, I try to sail my boat as close to upright as I can, EXCEPT in light airs when I want my sails to sleep, meaning not to move around much. Also in heavy airs, I don't use the boom vang as much on this boat and that allows me to have more twist at the top of my main. That allows more air to escape up high. Seems to work for me. I hope some of this has helped. It will take a while to learn what works best on your boat. With respect to Don's guide to sail trim, I believe we're going to need a new guide with regards to roller furling mains. It's another ball game so to speak. It has taken me awhile to get a handle on it and I thought I was fairly competent in sailing handling, but the roller furling main is different. But then there is the equally fascinating idea that I'm just getting dumber. Who knows. Enjoy! Les
Les: I wish you'd posted that on the "Sail Trim"
..the "Sail Trim" thread above. We have a bunch of anti furling main fanatics posting there, none of whom will admit that the've never sailed one, just hate it with a passion because it's different. I went from a full batten main on an H29.5 to a furling main on an H410 and would never go back to hauling up a mainsail. And I probably spend as much time trim tweaking as the full batten fanatics do. I personally thing the loose footed main allows better trim than the full batten - foot in the boom sail did on my 29.5. Thanks for your input.
..the "Sail Trim" thread above. We have a bunch of anti furling main fanatics posting there, none of whom will admit that the've never sailed one, just hate it with a passion because it's different. I went from a full batten main on an H29.5 to a furling main on an H410 and would never go back to hauling up a mainsail. And I probably spend as much time trim tweaking as the full batten fanatics do. I personally thing the loose footed main allows better trim than the full batten - foot in the boom sail did on my 29.5. Thanks for your input.
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