Sail trim and helm pressure

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Jun 16, 2010
495
In search of my next boat Palm Harbor, FL
I read Don G's Sail Trim Guide, so when I was out yesterday, I thought I might try out some techniques. So when I was sailing close hulled, I moved the traveller up(?) to bring the boom closer to center. This tremendously eased pressure on the helm (tiller). Is this what I should expect?

For full disclosure - I know that the sails on my 1984 H22 are worn out, and I will be replacing them when my tax refund comes. It always seems like my boat has a lot of weather helm, compared to other boats I have sailed. I always thought it was cause of the sails, as I have never had a problem balancing the sails before.
 
Nov 2, 2010
114
Precision 28 Ashland, Oregon
Yes, in my experience old "blown out" sails do cause weather helm (and overpowering). If you can't make a sail flatter as the wind pick up you will experience both. Raising the traveler (centering the boom) is usually good, but I can't see how it would reduce weather helm, unless you are pinching (and thereby taking a lot of power out of the sails). Maybe I'm wrong, and if so I'm hoping someone can explain it ;-)
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,323
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
Raising the traveller too far will stall the average mainsail, as will letting it out too far. You need to keep an eye on the telltales to help determine optimal boom position... or alter your course.

If the mainsail stalls....... you will lose the weather helm since the workload will shift almost entirely to the headsail. It is a challenge to balance a baggy sail, because the exaggerated shape of the main alters the boom's apparent angle of attack, as well as the difficulty in keeping airflow attached to its extreme contour.

Next time you sail, watch the telltales when you bring the traveller up.... perhaps the adjustment helps get the baggy rag in better trim.... or perhaps you're just stalling it (like heading up) which will affect the weather helm also.
 
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Nov 2, 2010
114
Precision 28 Ashland, Oregon
I assume you are referring to the Main Sail Leech Telltales?? Or perhaps you have (near the) luff telltales on your main? I have seen a few boats with them, but not too many...
 
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
To answer the question, it depends. What you did was balance your sail plan. We really can't tell what you did to the mainsail till we know which way the pressure on the helm (weather or leeward helm) you had was in the first place.
Get sailing in the general direction you want to go and get things generally trimmed
ask yourself, do I have 3 degrees of weather helm? (weather helm is + in this discussion, lee helm is -)
if yes, you are a salty sea dog and you deserve a beer
if no, what type and how much helm do I have?
if too much weather helm (>+3 deg) [boat wants to turn into the wind] then
either the main has too much power or the jib too little. Adjust the one that seems to be working less hard.
if too much lee helm (<+3 deg)[boat wants to turn down wind] then either the main has too little power or the jib too much. Adjust the one that seems to be working less hard.
repeat till you get an average helm of +3 degrees (to weather)

If you find yourself heeled over beyond 15 degrees you need to depower both jib and main. you can't get the optimum +3 degrees of helm if you are heeled over a lot.

I always think of the boat sitting on a pivot on the keel, blow on the jib and she turns down wind, blow on the main and she turns into the wind.
 

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
inarathree -

The FIRST thing you must do when you have questions of 'helm pressure' is to verify that the *forestay* is operating at near correct tension - about 15% of ultimate stress. This is the forestay tension that almost all sailmakers expect when cutting sails .... and so that the sag in the wire matches the curved shape they cut when the boat is closehauled/beating.
If this forestay tension is 'less than expected', what will happen is that the jib will become draft aft and the leech will hook up toward the windward side and the boat will then 'skid off to leeward' (and you will *see* that wake is not coming off the stern in a somewhat straight line), the boat will heel aggressively (also increasing so-called weather helm), etc. The result of a 'slack' forestay is that the boat will have 'helm pressure' that mimics so-called weather helm.

You can easily mistakenly 'balance' a misshapen jib on a 'slack' forestay with a poorly SHAPED mainsail ... sometimes even having a 'neutral helm' (while the boat skids off to leewards) and NO amount of raking the mast will correct. A skid to leeward (mimics 'weather helm') is found by looking at the wake coming off the stern. A well set up boat with sails raised with the proper tensions to arrive at the *as designed* sail shape, well trimmed sails will have that wake coming off the stern at approx. no more than 3-4° from the centerline when sailing closehauled/beating; anything greater than this 3-4° 'off' wake denotes a 'skid to leeward' ... once the boat 'skids', the rudder develops undue 'side pressure' and the helmsman will erroneously blame 'weather helm'.

So, with ANY question of 'helm balance' the FIRST thing you must consider is that the forestay is 'tight' (~15% tension) so that the wire does not sag off to leeward when the jib is 'windloaded'. You adjust the forestay tension by adjusting the backstay.

The SECOND thing with respect to 'helm balance', and once the forestay is close to its normally expected 15% tension, is to be sure that the mainsail has proper LUFF tension - done with the halyard (or cunningham if you have one). Probably 95% of all cruisers (with dacron sails) never apply correct luff tension.
Incorrect luff (halyard) tension will cause the boat to develop 'weather helm'. to verify correct luff / halyard tension for a mainsail: http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=120970
If you simply raise a boltroped dacron mainsail to 'just up' and do not then apply MORE halyard tension, you WILL have 'weather helm' ... with dacron boltroped (rope inside of the luff sleeve) sails you MUST add additional 'stretch' to the luff by about 1" additional 'stretch' for each 11 ft. of luff length ... or you will get 'weather helm'. The link above describes WHAT to do about it.

.... and of course you need a FULL set of tell tales on the jib and mainsail to visually SEE what is happening.

Sail SHAPE when the sails are well trimmed have more result and influence on 'helm pressure' versus the CLR/CE relationship. .... its the 'dynamics' of sail action that truly affects 'helm balance'. You really have to 'shape' the (dacron) sails after 'raising them'. To attain good 'balance' the forestay has to be near correct tension and the sails have to have the proper tension along their luffs.

hope this helps.
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,323
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
I assume you are referring to the Main Sail Leech Telltales?? Or perhaps you have (near the) luff telltales on your main? I have seen a few boats with them, but not too many...
Yes, peter, the subject was the boom position and thus, issues with the mainsail.

I've never seen luff telltales on a mainsail... but you should always have them on the leech.... some sailors have "mid-chord" telltales on their mains but I don't use them. This site: www.arvelgentry.com has a lot of thoughts on telltales.

The three on my leech are crucial to trimming the main... perhaps the most useful tool on the boat.... behind the compass/gps. (you need to know where you're going before trimming the sails, heh, heh)
 
Jul 5, 2010
161
Oday 22, Mariner, Challenger 15 Michigan
You might consider a new rudder from IdaSailor. I replaced the factory rudder on my O'Day 22 and it made a huge difference.
 
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