Sail Question - Laminate vs Dacron, etc.

[BarryL]

Hi,I need new sails for my 1986 Newport 28 (main and 135 roller furling genoa).In doing my research, it seems like 'performance' sails,(at least for headsails) are radial cut with laminate material,while 'cruising' sails are still cross cut dacron. Since I don't race, but performance is very important tome (meaning that I like to go as fast as possible and willadjust things like jib leads, traveler, boom vang, etc),should I be looking at cross cut dacron, or radial laminate?Being that my boat is relatively small, does laminate constructionhave a real benefit for me? Is a radial cut with dacron cloth the best of both worlds?I thought I knew the answers until I spoke to a number of sail makers.Of course I have received conflicting advice - one loft recommendeda cruising laminate headsail, the other recommended a radial cutdacron. The main is easy, dacron with 1 (or 2) full batten, the rest partial.Right, or am I missing something?Any sails I buy will need to work for at least 5 years (hopefully 10). I do mostly day sails with a weekend here or there. My sailing ground is the Long Island Sound, and the season is from May to November.Comments welcome!!Barry

 

[Moody Buccaneer]

It's a toss up

In boats that size sail construction is not as big a factor since loads are low.Did you give the sailmakers your requirement for 5-10 year useful life? If so, I'd go with both sails from the same loft and take their advise.I think your choice of Dacron and one full batten for the main is a good one. My new main is radial cut laminate and is not as user friendly as the Dacron it replaced, it is MUCH faster however.

 

[Stu Jackson]

SAIL magazine

BarryThey just did an article on Genoa construction. It essentially says that it really depends on how you intend to use your boat and how much $$ you have. There are, as you say, conflicting stories out there, all, no doubt, due to who is doing the "consulting."Umm, there really is no "right" answer, and you'll have to make the call.Stu

 

[Alchemist]

Tough question

I answered it for my '87 C-30 by buying a square weave dacron 2+2 (2 full battens, 2 shorter battens) bi-radial cut main from Doyle / Boston, and a TL-66 triradial cut genoa from Sobstadt (TL-66 is a dacron / mylar laminate that has the dacron taffeta on both sides of the mylar.I bought the main in '97 and the genoa in '00, and won the C-30 nationals that year. I sold the boat in '02 with those sails still in competetive shape (the main had 5 seasons of racing and cruising while the genoa had just the 2 seasons).For my replacement boat (a Catalina 320), I bought a used UK Tapedrive silver genoa (it's now 5 years old and still winning and cruising fast), and a new UK tapedrive silver main.I need some repairs on the genoa (the PO folded it after every race, and the luff tape is cracked, and the velcro that secures the leach cord doesn't seal any more), but the shape is still very good, and I don't notice anything wrong with the main yet (after all, it's only 2 years old).A well made dacron sail will be fast and last a long time. A well made laminate sail should last slightly shorter than the dacron sail, but it should retain it's sailing shape longer (as well as being lighter).Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer chances.SteveAlchemist C-30T #4764Alchemist C-320 #909

 

[Tom Spohn]

New Sails

I would personally eliminate the radial cut dacron (polyester). Pressure on the bias of the fabric will blow out this sail sooner rather than later.This leaves cross-cut polyester vs. laminate sails. Polyester will last longer. It will still be there in 10 years, but the shape will not be too great. Laminates hold their shape better and will outperform polyester fabrics for the next 5 years or so. This translates to less lean and more forward power. Polyester fabric may also be better if you are roller furling/reefing. Laminates weigh a bit less so you will have less weight aloft.If you are thinking laminates, really think about how you will use the boat. Laminates are more prone to mildew and some types of fibers are quite prone to damage from UV rays from the sun. Others are less prone to UV damage.Nothing says you have to have the same kind of sail for a main and headsail. Some one-design fleets have dacron cross-cut mains, and tri-radial laminate headsails because of what class rules dictate. Also there are many ways to trim and tweak the main but fewer ways to tweak the headsail. For me this means I want the headsail to be shaped really well which means a laminate. My main is dacron.

 

[David W]

My approach is likely going to be

cross cut head and mainsail. We don't race (except for once race a year) I looked at laminates but could not justify the additional cost, handling or longevity trade-offs given our requirements.While I am a good sailor, know and practice the fundamental of good sail trim, I also don't spend my time on the water tweaking sail trim so the benefits of laminate sails would probably be lost on me.My two cents worthDavid

 

[RichH]

I'd go with ...

radial cut cruising dacron laminate for the headsail and either cruising laminate or straight polyester dacron crosscut for the mainsail.This combo will be the longest lasting and best shape holding. For the cross cut main, be sure to record the exact luff dimension so that the boltrope can be 'eased' occasionally - to later restore shape and draft position, etc. Al;so discuss with the sailmaker to add a bit of extra 'stored' boltrope to make the 'easing' even easier. For a radial cut dacron laminate genoa, suggest you discuss a heavier material on the leech section and a lighter weight on the luff panels (rolled up when reefing) ... easier to roll on a furler, tighter roll, etc. for better shaping, etc. Since the lighter weight luff is rolled and not exposed when roller furled/reefed it makes for a sail with less weight (aloft). Discuss with your sailmaker the wind velocities that you normally sail ... normal (15-17kts) and when roller reefed.

 

[David W]

Rich, what would such a material be called?

just so I am more knowledgable when I get to go shopping!

 

[RichH]

Contender .....

I prefer fabrics manufactured by Contender or Bainbridge for all my dacron and dacron laminate sails. For the genoa: .... Contender "polyester cruising laminate" -polyester taffeta on both sides for abrasion and tearing resistance and a polyester warp fill ... all over a central mylar film . This is for a sail that is rolled and never folded. Laminates will have a very short life if folded. Since a main is typically 'folded' both for reefing and to store the sail I'd recommend straight dacron polyester 'pre-preg Sailcloth', as the laminates cant take much folding at all. For that I'd spend the few extra pennies for "super cruise" from Contender or a standard prepreg grade from Bainbridge. Beware many of the 'offshore' dacrons are quite inferior for life and resistance to stretch. Dont skimp on the fabric - will pay dividends through time.

 

[David W]

Beauty, thanks Rich!

nm

 

[Scott]

Not Racing?

Or maybe thinking about it? We bought cross cut dacron for both sails and are happy. The main has 2 full batten and 2 partial batten. We went with 150 genoa and rarely used our older 110 jib this year. You are roller furling so reefing to 135 should be fine. If you are thinking about racing, you'll probably want dedicated race sails when you get into it, so you will still need your dacron sails for cruising and daysailing.If you aren't thinking about racing, you'll still be happy with the sails and have the extra money for other important upgrades on your 20-year-old boat. That's how we looked at it.