Drifters (free flying) and asymmetrical spinnakers, while cut differently, seem to be used mostly in similar conditions, ie light wind reaching. If you could have only one, which would you choose and what would drive your decision? (Say for a 35'-40' racer/cruiser, not too heavy displacement.)
Sail choice
- Thread starter T37 Phil
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Drifters (free flying) and asymmetrical spinnakers, while cut differently, seem to be used mostly in similar conditions, ie light wind reaching. If you could have only one, which would you choose and what would drive your decision? (Say for a 35'-40' racer/cruiser, not too heavy displacement.)
- Jan 22, 2008
- 519
technically...
I think the difference between an assym and drifter is the use of a pole. Assym's still use a pole for the tack, if I am not mistaken, while drifters do not. You can also have drifters that have different configurations. For instance my drifter is called a DRS, Drifter Reacher Spinnaker, so the way it is cut allows me to use it in a number of different ways. Some drifters, may in fact be just a lightweight genoa, 150 or 180 which may allow you to point higher, whereas most assym's would make going any closer than a beam reach impossible.
I think the difference between an assym and drifter is the use of a pole. Assym's still use a pole for the tack, if I am not mistaken, while drifters do not. You can also have drifters that have different configurations. For instance my drifter is called a DRS, Drifter Reacher Spinnaker, so the way it is cut allows me to use it in a number of different ways. Some drifters, may in fact be just a lightweight genoa, 150 or 180 which may allow you to point higher, whereas most assym's would make going any closer than a beam reach impossible.
- Jan 22, 2008
- 519
technically...
I think the difference between an assym and drifter is the use of a pole. Assym's still use a pole for the tack, if I am not mistaken, while drifters do not. You can also have drifters that have different configurations. For instance my drifter is called a DRS, Drifter Reacher Spinnaker, so the way it is cut allows me to use it in a number of different ways. Some drifters, may in fact be just a lightweight genoa, 150 or 180 which may allow you to point higher, whereas most assym's would make going any closer than a beam reach impossible.
I think the difference between an assym and drifter is the use of a pole. Assym's still use a pole for the tack, if I am not mistaken, while drifters do not. You can also have drifters that have different configurations. For instance my drifter is called a DRS, Drifter Reacher Spinnaker, so the way it is cut allows me to use it in a number of different ways. Some drifters, may in fact be just a lightweight genoa, 150 or 180 which may allow you to point higher, whereas most assym's would make going any closer than a beam reach impossible.
Drifters and Code Sails
Could the relatively unpopularity of code sails and drifters for racing be the (sometimes) large penalty assigned to them under the PHRF system? Out here in S.F. you are penalized for large genoas and then again for drifters/codes. In regards to spinnakers, you are measured for either asymmetric or symmetric and there is a penalty assigned to boats that carry both. I had the opportunity to race on an ULDB whose owner frankly didn’t worry too much about PHRF numbers and we had a purpose built drifter made out of a cloth that was much lighter and more fragile than .5 oz nylon spin cloth. We only used it once, but it really made the boat ghost along. Likewise, the code only came out of its bag once (we swapped the drifter out for it when the winds picked up). I’ve been told that with the broader gybing angles of an A-kite, A lighter, surfing boat is better suited for that sail and a “heavy” displacement boat such as my Catalina is better suited for a symmetric spinnaker. My A-kite is fine for cruising with the spouse, but its performance can’t compare to symmetric. I believe that the difference between an A-Kite and symmetric is the symmetric’ luffs are the same length where as the A-kite’s luff and leach are different lengths. And the difference between the A-kite and a code/drifter is the A-kite has an adjustable tack and the code/drifter is fixed and has a luff wire or line sewn into the sail.
Could the relatively unpopularity of code sails and drifters for racing be the (sometimes) large penalty assigned to them under the PHRF system? Out here in S.F. you are penalized for large genoas and then again for drifters/codes. In regards to spinnakers, you are measured for either asymmetric or symmetric and there is a penalty assigned to boats that carry both. I had the opportunity to race on an ULDB whose owner frankly didn’t worry too much about PHRF numbers and we had a purpose built drifter made out of a cloth that was much lighter and more fragile than .5 oz nylon spin cloth. We only used it once, but it really made the boat ghost along. Likewise, the code only came out of its bag once (we swapped the drifter out for it when the winds picked up). I’ve been told that with the broader gybing angles of an A-kite, A lighter, surfing boat is better suited for that sail and a “heavy” displacement boat such as my Catalina is better suited for a symmetric spinnaker. My A-kite is fine for cruising with the spouse, but its performance can’t compare to symmetric. I believe that the difference between an A-Kite and symmetric is the symmetric’ luffs are the same length where as the A-kite’s luff and leach are different lengths. And the difference between the A-kite and a code/drifter is the A-kite has an adjustable tack and the code/drifter is fixed and has a luff wire or line sewn into the sail.
Drifters and Code Sails
Could the relatively unpopularity of code sails and drifters for racing be the (sometimes) large penalty assigned to them under the PHRF system? Out here in S.F. you are penalized for large genoas and then again for drifters/codes. In regards to spinnakers, you are measured for either asymmetric or symmetric and there is a penalty assigned to boats that carry both. I had the opportunity to race on an ULDB whose owner frankly didn’t worry too much about PHRF numbers and we had a purpose built drifter made out of a cloth that was much lighter and more fragile than .5 oz nylon spin cloth. We only used it once, but it really made the boat ghost along. Likewise, the code only came out of its bag once (we swapped the drifter out for it when the winds picked up). I’ve been told that with the broader gybing angles of an A-kite, A lighter, surfing boat is better suited for that sail and a “heavy” displacement boat such as my Catalina is better suited for a symmetric spinnaker. My A-kite is fine for cruising with the spouse, but its performance can’t compare to symmetric. I believe that the difference between an A-Kite and symmetric is the symmetric’ luffs are the same length where as the A-kite’s luff and leach are different lengths. And the difference between the A-kite and a code/drifter is the A-kite has an adjustable tack and the code/drifter is fixed and has a luff wire or line sewn into the sail.
Could the relatively unpopularity of code sails and drifters for racing be the (sometimes) large penalty assigned to them under the PHRF system? Out here in S.F. you are penalized for large genoas and then again for drifters/codes. In regards to spinnakers, you are measured for either asymmetric or symmetric and there is a penalty assigned to boats that carry both. I had the opportunity to race on an ULDB whose owner frankly didn’t worry too much about PHRF numbers and we had a purpose built drifter made out of a cloth that was much lighter and more fragile than .5 oz nylon spin cloth. We only used it once, but it really made the boat ghost along. Likewise, the code only came out of its bag once (we swapped the drifter out for it when the winds picked up). I’ve been told that with the broader gybing angles of an A-kite, A lighter, surfing boat is better suited for that sail and a “heavy” displacement boat such as my Catalina is better suited for a symmetric spinnaker. My A-kite is fine for cruising with the spouse, but its performance can’t compare to symmetric. I believe that the difference between an A-Kite and symmetric is the symmetric’ luffs are the same length where as the A-kite’s luff and leach are different lengths. And the difference between the A-kite and a code/drifter is the A-kite has an adjustable tack and the code/drifter is fixed and has a luff wire or line sewn into the sail.
Go with the A sail for sure
Phil- The biggest difference between the drifter and the asymmetrical spinnaker is that the drifter, being a flatter cut sail will allow you to sail higher - on a closer reach. Assuming that you are cruising with this sail the difference in performance between a drifter and a large genoa barber hauled to the rail will not be so significant that you would want to run right down and buy one. In the light airs that the drifter would be most effective in, most cruisers would likely start to motor. The asymmetrical spinnaker, however, would allow you more flexibility since, based on how full it is cut, it will give you a lot more power on a broader or deeper reach. The fuller the sail is cut the better it will rotate out from behind the main and the deeper you will be able to sail with it. On this point of sail the addition of the a-sail to your inventory would make a significant difference in your performance over your genoa. If you are looking for a racing sail a symmetrical spinnaker would probably be a better choice. Unless you are racing shorthanded where the simplicity of the a-sail is convenient, the symmetrical kite will allow you to sail deeper angles thus giving you more flexibility. Asymmetrical kites on sport boats are so effective because of the boat's great speed potential. The faster they go the more the apparent wind moves forward and the deeper they can sail. A 35-40' racer/cruiser type boat will never see those speeds and will, therefore, not be able to use the a-sail as deep as a symmetrical kite. Good luck.
Phil- The biggest difference between the drifter and the asymmetrical spinnaker is that the drifter, being a flatter cut sail will allow you to sail higher - on a closer reach. Assuming that you are cruising with this sail the difference in performance between a drifter and a large genoa barber hauled to the rail will not be so significant that you would want to run right down and buy one. In the light airs that the drifter would be most effective in, most cruisers would likely start to motor. The asymmetrical spinnaker, however, would allow you more flexibility since, based on how full it is cut, it will give you a lot more power on a broader or deeper reach. The fuller the sail is cut the better it will rotate out from behind the main and the deeper you will be able to sail with it. On this point of sail the addition of the a-sail to your inventory would make a significant difference in your performance over your genoa. If you are looking for a racing sail a symmetrical spinnaker would probably be a better choice. Unless you are racing shorthanded where the simplicity of the a-sail is convenient, the symmetrical kite will allow you to sail deeper angles thus giving you more flexibility. Asymmetrical kites on sport boats are so effective because of the boat's great speed potential. The faster they go the more the apparent wind moves forward and the deeper they can sail. A 35-40' racer/cruiser type boat will never see those speeds and will, therefore, not be able to use the a-sail as deep as a symmetrical kite. Good luck.
Go with the A sail for sure
Phil- The biggest difference between the drifter and the asymmetrical spinnaker is that the drifter, being a flatter cut sail will allow you to sail higher - on a closer reach. Assuming that you are cruising with this sail the difference in performance between a drifter and a large genoa barber hauled to the rail will not be so significant that you would want to run right down and buy one. In the light airs that the drifter would be most effective in, most cruisers would likely start to motor. The asymmetrical spinnaker, however, would allow you more flexibility since, based on how full it is cut, it will give you a lot more power on a broader or deeper reach. The fuller the sail is cut the better it will rotate out from behind the main and the deeper you will be able to sail with it. On this point of sail the addition of the a-sail to your inventory would make a significant difference in your performance over your genoa. If you are looking for a racing sail a symmetrical spinnaker would probably be a better choice. Unless you are racing shorthanded where the simplicity of the a-sail is convenient, the symmetrical kite will allow you to sail deeper angles thus giving you more flexibility. Asymmetrical kites on sport boats are so effective because of the boat's great speed potential. The faster they go the more the apparent wind moves forward and the deeper they can sail. A 35-40' racer/cruiser type boat will never see those speeds and will, therefore, not be able to use the a-sail as deep as a symmetrical kite. Good luck.
Phil- The biggest difference between the drifter and the asymmetrical spinnaker is that the drifter, being a flatter cut sail will allow you to sail higher - on a closer reach. Assuming that you are cruising with this sail the difference in performance between a drifter and a large genoa barber hauled to the rail will not be so significant that you would want to run right down and buy one. In the light airs that the drifter would be most effective in, most cruisers would likely start to motor. The asymmetrical spinnaker, however, would allow you more flexibility since, based on how full it is cut, it will give you a lot more power on a broader or deeper reach. The fuller the sail is cut the better it will rotate out from behind the main and the deeper you will be able to sail with it. On this point of sail the addition of the a-sail to your inventory would make a significant difference in your performance over your genoa. If you are looking for a racing sail a symmetrical spinnaker would probably be a better choice. Unless you are racing shorthanded where the simplicity of the a-sail is convenient, the symmetrical kite will allow you to sail deeper angles thus giving you more flexibility. Asymmetrical kites on sport boats are so effective because of the boat's great speed potential. The faster they go the more the apparent wind moves forward and the deeper they can sail. A 35-40' racer/cruiser type boat will never see those speeds and will, therefore, not be able to use the a-sail as deep as a symmetrical kite. Good luck.
Good explanation
Thanks Tom. That's what I was looking for. Could you recommend a sailmakers website or books that discuss finer points of how the cut of a sail effects its performance. I'd find that a good read.
Thanks Tom. That's what I was looking for. Could you recommend a sailmakers website or books that discuss finer points of how the cut of a sail effects its performance. I'd find that a good read.
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