I am nelatively new to sailing. I have only sailed the small dai sailers to date, but I am ready to upgrade to a larger craft. I have specifically looked at the Capy Dory Typhoon, Precision 18 and Catalina 18 as potential options. I would like to hear from others before Imake a purchase. Is one of the three listed above better thant the rest? Is there another brand that I should consider? Thank you in advance.
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Try out some boats
Some how through friends or a sailing school get out and sail a few boats that are the type you think you would like. Make a list of the features you would like the boat to have. Make a budget. Then go looking for a boat. The boat should fit your needs. My needs are simple and easily met, I won't even day sail without a head forget it I ain't holding it for hours. The boat has to be able to be single handed and have an easy motion and will hold a course easy with a tiller minder. Another point with me is the bunk length and width I want to stretch out and not fall out of the bunk at night. The other is a galley .... oh ya this was about you what you want see where it takes you.
Some how through friends or a sailing school get out and sail a few boats that are the type you think you would like. Make a list of the features you would like the boat to have. Make a budget. Then go looking for a boat. The boat should fit your needs. My needs are simple and easily met, I won't even day sail without a head forget it I ain't holding it for hours. The boat has to be able to be single handed and have an easy motion and will hold a course easy with a tiller minder. Another point with me is the bunk length and width I want to stretch out and not fall out of the bunk at night. The other is a galley .... oh ya this was about you what you want see where it takes you.
What do you want to do with this new boat?
Terry, Do you want to just go out during the day? Do you want to anchor out over night? Stay out over the weekend? Couple weeks? What are your needs in this new boat? Best of luck?
Terry, Do you want to just go out during the day? Do you want to anchor out over night? Stay out over the weekend? Couple weeks? What are your needs in this new boat? Best of luck?
- Jan 22, 2008
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thoughts on moving up
I moved up from an Oday DS II (small cuddy) to a Sundance 20' a couple of years ago to gain sitting headroom, better sleeping accomodations, and more storage. I got all of that and am quite pleased with the result. One thing to be thinking about is what you want in a boat, rather that the specific type of boat. It may be surprised (as I was) to find a boat that meets your needs that you had not thought of but was local, and available. FWIW, two years later I am wanting (not needing) another boat, and really the only additional piece that I am looking for is standing headroom. The boats available in the size I want however, are all outside the weight range. The costs associated with moving up to a Flicka (which is really the only boat that I know of with standing head room in that range) are far greater than the trade off of things I do have now in my current boat, weight, swing keel, low cost. Until my needs change, or the right boat that comes along to meet my current needs, I have to stay put with what I have. As others have stated make a list of the desired characteristics of a new to you boat, then start looking around at what meets those needs. If one of the three boats you are looking at stands out for one or more reasons, is available, and fits within your budget, then you have your answer.
I moved up from an Oday DS II (small cuddy) to a Sundance 20' a couple of years ago to gain sitting headroom, better sleeping accomodations, and more storage. I got all of that and am quite pleased with the result. One thing to be thinking about is what you want in a boat, rather that the specific type of boat. It may be surprised (as I was) to find a boat that meets your needs that you had not thought of but was local, and available. FWIW, two years later I am wanting (not needing) another boat, and really the only additional piece that I am looking for is standing headroom. The boats available in the size I want however, are all outside the weight range. The costs associated with moving up to a Flicka (which is really the only boat that I know of with standing head room in that range) are far greater than the trade off of things I do have now in my current boat, weight, swing keel, low cost. Until my needs change, or the right boat that comes along to meet my current needs, I have to stay put with what I have. As others have stated make a list of the desired characteristics of a new to you boat, then start looking around at what meets those needs. If one of the three boats you are looking at stands out for one or more reasons, is available, and fits within your budget, then you have your answer.
Needs
We live on an inland lake in North Central Alabama. The sail boat will be used primarily for day sailing, although I would like the flexability to haul it to the gulf coast for weekend sailing just off shore. (Thus the desire for something around 18 ft) I like the three mentioned above because they do offer an enclosed bunk for times I need/want to drop anchor and take a nap....or for a quick escape from the rain. I wouldn't need a galley or extended sleeping quarters. We would keep the boat on a lift in our boat house. I was primarily interested in the manufacturing aspect. IE: Is one manufacturer considered to stand above the others from a manufacturing perspective.
We live on an inland lake in North Central Alabama. The sail boat will be used primarily for day sailing, although I would like the flexability to haul it to the gulf coast for weekend sailing just off shore. (Thus the desire for something around 18 ft) I like the three mentioned above because they do offer an enclosed bunk for times I need/want to drop anchor and take a nap....or for a quick escape from the rain. I wouldn't need a galley or extended sleeping quarters. We would keep the boat on a lift in our boat house. I was primarily interested in the manufacturing aspect. IE: Is one manufacturer considered to stand above the others from a manufacturing perspective.
We're on Logan Martin lake
Not much water right now, though. Just FYI, if you want to keep it on a lift in your boat house, you'll probably have to lower the mast each time, which is easier with some boats than with others. Catalina 22 is a nice size/ nice sailing boat for what you want to do. Find a sailing club or a sailing marina on your lake, and you can probably look at a bunch of different boats quickly. Good luck.
Not much water right now, though. Just FYI, if you want to keep it on a lift in your boat house, you'll probably have to lower the mast each time, which is easier with some boats than with others. Catalina 22 is a nice size/ nice sailing boat for what you want to do. Find a sailing club or a sailing marina on your lake, and you can probably look at a bunch of different boats quickly. Good luck.
Logan Martin
Stan, I know it well. We are on Smith Lake, but I have friends on Logan Martin. I noticed someone else was on Guntersville as well. I have seen active clubs on Lanier, Gulf Shores, Destin, etc....but we don't have an active club on Smith (not yet anyway). Are there any active clubs close to the Birmingham area? I had planned to leave the mast up, and keep the boat in the water most of the year.....but store it on the lift during the winter. Do you think a Catalina 22 is the preferred model over the 18 ? I hesitated to look at anything over 19 just due to the size. IE: I wanted to keep it small enough to haul easily......and to handle by myself..... Thanks all for the input. TJ
Stan, I know it well. We are on Smith Lake, but I have friends on Logan Martin. I noticed someone else was on Guntersville as well. I have seen active clubs on Lanier, Gulf Shores, Destin, etc....but we don't have an active club on Smith (not yet anyway). Are there any active clubs close to the Birmingham area? I had planned to leave the mast up, and keep the boat in the water most of the year.....but store it on the lift during the winter. Do you think a Catalina 22 is the preferred model over the 18 ? I hesitated to look at anything over 19 just due to the size. IE: I wanted to keep it small enough to haul easily......and to handle by myself..... Thanks all for the input. TJ
There is a club on Guntersville and Logan Martin
Brown's Creek Sailing Marina (and Club) are at Guntersville. Birmingham Sailing Club is at Logan Martin. Both are friendly (not yacht type) people. I honestly can't tell you much about the difference between a Catalina 18 and 22, but i can tell you that an 18 foot sailboat is smaller than you may think, and a 22 foot sailboat can bve easily trailered. If you're comparing to a ski boat, for instance, the weights are very different (sailboat is much lighter for an 18 foot ski boat vs an 18 foot sailboat) until you get to a larger size boat with an inboard engine and lead keel. You can also get a lot of info off of this site on specifgi models if you look under catalinaowners.com and macgregorowners.com, etc.
Brown's Creek Sailing Marina (and Club) are at Guntersville. Birmingham Sailing Club is at Logan Martin. Both are friendly (not yacht type) people. I honestly can't tell you much about the difference between a Catalina 18 and 22, but i can tell you that an 18 foot sailboat is smaller than you may think, and a 22 foot sailboat can bve easily trailered. If you're comparing to a ski boat, for instance, the weights are very different (sailboat is much lighter for an 18 foot ski boat vs an 18 foot sailboat) until you get to a larger size boat with an inboard engine and lead keel. You can also get a lot of info off of this site on specifgi models if you look under catalinaowners.com and macgregorowners.com, etc.
- Jan 22, 2008
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so Terry, my next question leads from your last
You indicate the desire to trailer it. The next question then is what is the rated pulling capacity of your vehicle. The Catalina 22 is very popular and there are large numbers of them out there. Check the capacity of your vehicle, then the displacement of the various models you are looking at. Certainly displacement was/is a restricting factor for me. I prefer to have my current 1300# boat and trailerability with my Ford Ranger than having to fork out for a significantly heavier boat, AND another tow vehicle just to pull it around.
You indicate the desire to trailer it. The next question then is what is the rated pulling capacity of your vehicle. The Catalina 22 is very popular and there are large numbers of them out there. Check the capacity of your vehicle, then the displacement of the various models you are looking at. Certainly displacement was/is a restricting factor for me. I prefer to have my current 1300# boat and trailerability with my Ford Ranger than having to fork out for a significantly heavier boat, AND another tow vehicle just to pull it around.
Towing
Roger, Great point! I have a Chevy Silverado 1500 with the large V8 and tow package. We own a Ski Nautique and a classic 1960 Cherokee runabout and it pulls both with little effort. The Nautique's weight (with the 351 inboard) is comparable I think. I definitely want to make sure I can trailor the craft with my current vehicle. That is one reason I am leaning toward a smaller craft. Based on the specifications I have seen, I should be fine up to 23ft.....but definitely up to 18 or 19 ft.
Roger, Great point! I have a Chevy Silverado 1500 with the large V8 and tow package. We own a Ski Nautique and a classic 1960 Cherokee runabout and it pulls both with little effort. The Nautique's weight (with the 351 inboard) is comparable I think. I definitely want to make sure I can trailor the craft with my current vehicle. That is one reason I am leaning toward a smaller craft. Based on the specifications I have seen, I should be fine up to 23ft.....but definitely up to 18 or 19 ft.
It is often said
That until you sail a boat at least 23-25 feet long, it doesn't really feel like a big boat. It looks like the c18 only has 400 lbs of ballast - half as much as the 22. While no "tippy canoe", i can tell you that you moving around will have more effect than that keel - a line that you cross with the c22.
That until you sail a boat at least 23-25 feet long, it doesn't really feel like a big boat. It looks like the c18 only has 400 lbs of ballast - half as much as the 22. While no "tippy canoe", i can tell you that you moving around will have more effect than that keel - a line that you cross with the c22.
movin' on up
The Catalina 22 is just about perfect for what you want. Large enough so that you can daysail a crowd or over night just the two of you, or with one or two small kids. the only thing is that you must make the trailer absolutely bulletproof before you begin, and keep on top of it.
The Catalina 22 is just about perfect for what you want. Large enough so that you can daysail a crowd or over night just the two of you, or with one or two small kids. the only thing is that you must make the trailer absolutely bulletproof before you begin, and keep on top of it.
Alabama sailor
Terry, Nice to see some other Alabama sailors on line. I'll cast my vote for the Catalina 22 as well. With a swing keel, it'll launch in about 2-1/2 feet of water, and your tow set up would have no problems at all with it. We tow ours with a 2WD Ford Explorer Sport-Trac, and although you can definitely feel it back there, the truck doesn't have any problems. Only problems ever encountered are pulling the boat back out of the water if the ramp is wet. With 2WD on a wet ramp, you'll get a lot of wheel spin unless you've got enough weight in the rear. We sail on Lay Lake, and there are only a couple of other sailboats there.
Terry, Nice to see some other Alabama sailors on line. I'll cast my vote for the Catalina 22 as well. With a swing keel, it'll launch in about 2-1/2 feet of water, and your tow set up would have no problems at all with it. We tow ours with a 2WD Ford Explorer Sport-Trac, and although you can definitely feel it back there, the truck doesn't have any problems. Only problems ever encountered are pulling the boat back out of the water if the ramp is wet. With 2WD on a wet ramp, you'll get a lot of wheel spin unless you've got enough weight in the rear. We sail on Lay Lake, and there are only a couple of other sailboats there.
Catalina 22
Lee, Thanks for the input. I see you are from Shelby. Is that Shelby County? We have friends in Sterritt. I have pretty much settled on either the Catalina 22 or the Precision 21. Looking at NADA both appear to hold value about the same.... I might consider a Precision 23 but I don't see any measurable difference in the specifications..... Catalina has three different boats in this range. The Catalina Capri 22, 22mkII, and 22 Sport. Which one do you have? Other than a larger cockpit it appears that the 22mkII is about the same as the Capri. Do you know of any measurable difference in sailing? No one has commented on the Precision thus far. Is the Catalina considered to be a better unit?
Lee, Thanks for the input. I see you are from Shelby. Is that Shelby County? We have friends in Sterritt. I have pretty much settled on either the Catalina 22 or the Precision 21. Looking at NADA both appear to hold value about the same.... I might consider a Precision 23 but I don't see any measurable difference in the specifications..... Catalina has three different boats in this range. The Catalina Capri 22, 22mkII, and 22 Sport. Which one do you have? Other than a larger cockpit it appears that the 22mkII is about the same as the Capri. Do you know of any measurable difference in sailing? No one has commented on the Precision thus far. Is the Catalina considered to be a better unit?
Don't know the Precision
I don't have any experience with the Precision, so I can't comment on it. One of the nice things about the Catalina 22 is that there are so many of them out there. Mine is an '81 model, so it's not the Mk2 variety, which came later. The Capri is really a totally different boat. Same length, but larger cockpit and smaller cabin, with the traveler sitting mid-cockpit in front of the tiller. I'm not sure what the difference is between the Mk2 and the Sport. The Sport may be more rigged for racing, and the Mk2 more for cruising, but that's just a guess. I've only sailed a Capri once, and it felt like it sailed pretty much like the standard boat, but the winds were pretty light. It's definitely designed as a more performance oriented boat like the J-22, so I imagine it wouldn't have any difficulty beating a C-22 in a race. It's got a fixed deep draft keel, so trailering and launching is a lot more of an issue than with the swing keel C-22
I don't have any experience with the Precision, so I can't comment on it. One of the nice things about the Catalina 22 is that there are so many of them out there. Mine is an '81 model, so it's not the Mk2 variety, which came later. The Capri is really a totally different boat. Same length, but larger cockpit and smaller cabin, with the traveler sitting mid-cockpit in front of the tiller. I'm not sure what the difference is between the Mk2 and the Sport. The Sport may be more rigged for racing, and the Mk2 more for cruising, but that's just a guess. I've only sailed a Capri once, and it felt like it sailed pretty much like the standard boat, but the winds were pretty light. It's definitely designed as a more performance oriented boat like the J-22, so I imagine it wouldn't have any difficulty beating a C-22 in a race. It's got a fixed deep draft keel, so trailering and launching is a lot more of an issue than with the swing keel C-22
Hi Terry. We keep our boat in Guntersville
at what used to be called The Anchorage. It changed hands recently and I believe the new name is the Lake Guntersville Marina. We are also members of the Lake Guntersville Sailing Club (LGSC) which is very active and IMHO, a friendly group. I'll chime in with what I know re: the boats you mentioned. The Cape Dory is a much more traditional setup, superior construction with a fullish keel/cutaway fore. I've sailed one in light air and it tracks really well but the trailoring will be a hassle. The Precision 21 and Cat 22 are similar in layout and features except the Precision has a shoal keel/centerboard design. I personally prefer that design as the swing keel in a C 22 can have issues after a number of years (if you are considering an older model). Plus, I believe the overall finished product of the Precision is slightly better than the Cat 22 (hence the price differences). Others are right in that a gazzillion Cat 22's have been built and can be found most anywhere, have a huge "knowledge base" which would be important in an area like Smith where there is no maintenance infrastructure and are of good quality. Also, please reconsider your thoughts about keeping it in a boat house. These boats are designed to live out in the weather and the only thing you might want to do is configure some sort of cover for the cockpit and hatch areas. Just watch the normal depth changes since I believe the level varies a lot on Smith even in normal years. A floating dock would make this a non-issue. I'll also throw in another boat to consider. The Hunter 23.5 water ballast has a lot of room (for a 23) in the cockpit and below, is easy to trailor and set up. It does not have a back stay so raising & lowering the mast would be a bit simplified. Also, like some have said, the differences between an 18' and 22' boat are significant; not only from a length perspective but also beam and depth. Lastly, I would not take any (except 'maybe' the Cape Dory) off shore. There are lots of good sailing areas in the larger bays on the Gulf Coast - Mobile, Pensacola, Ft. Walton/Destin and Panama City.
at what used to be called The Anchorage. It changed hands recently and I believe the new name is the Lake Guntersville Marina. We are also members of the Lake Guntersville Sailing Club (LGSC) which is very active and IMHO, a friendly group. I'll chime in with what I know re: the boats you mentioned. The Cape Dory is a much more traditional setup, superior construction with a fullish keel/cutaway fore. I've sailed one in light air and it tracks really well but the trailoring will be a hassle. The Precision 21 and Cat 22 are similar in layout and features except the Precision has a shoal keel/centerboard design. I personally prefer that design as the swing keel in a C 22 can have issues after a number of years (if you are considering an older model). Plus, I believe the overall finished product of the Precision is slightly better than the Cat 22 (hence the price differences). Others are right in that a gazzillion Cat 22's have been built and can be found most anywhere, have a huge "knowledge base" which would be important in an area like Smith where there is no maintenance infrastructure and are of good quality. Also, please reconsider your thoughts about keeping it in a boat house. These boats are designed to live out in the weather and the only thing you might want to do is configure some sort of cover for the cockpit and hatch areas. Just watch the normal depth changes since I believe the level varies a lot on Smith even in normal years. A floating dock would make this a non-issue. I'll also throw in another boat to consider. The Hunter 23.5 water ballast has a lot of room (for a 23) in the cockpit and below, is easy to trailor and set up. It does not have a back stay so raising & lowering the mast would be a bit simplified. Also, like some have said, the differences between an 18' and 22' boat are significant; not only from a length perspective but also beam and depth. Lastly, I would not take any (except 'maybe' the Cape Dory) off shore. There are lots of good sailing areas in the larger bays on the Gulf Coast - Mobile, Pensacola, Ft. Walton/Destin and Panama City.
Guntersville
Clark, Thanks for the input. I have eliminated the 18 ft from consideration. I have settled in on one of three boats. C-22, Precision 21 or Precision 23. I really like the centerboard set up, so I am leaning toward a Precision but if so it will probably be the P23. I was a Treker (4x4 like the Mule)dealer up until I closed shop last year. I have one demo unit left that I am trying to sell between now and spring. My desire is to use the cash as a partial payment on the sail boat. If anyone is interested you can check them out at www.landpride.com The retail on the unit was around $12,500 but I only have around $9,500 invested. Would let it go as a demo for around $7,800. (winch, electric lift, canopy, gun racks, grading blade, etc.)
Clark, Thanks for the input. I have eliminated the 18 ft from consideration. I have settled in on one of three boats. C-22, Precision 21 or Precision 23. I really like the centerboard set up, so I am leaning toward a Precision but if so it will probably be the P23. I was a Treker (4x4 like the Mule)dealer up until I closed shop last year. I have one demo unit left that I am trying to sell between now and spring. My desire is to use the cash as a partial payment on the sail boat. If anyone is interested you can check them out at www.landpride.com The retail on the unit was around $12,500 but I only have around $9,500 invested. Would let it go as a demo for around $7,800. (winch, electric lift, canopy, gun racks, grading blade, etc.)
What about a hunter 23
very similar to the P23, a little bit older, they can be had with centerboard/shoal keel or with a wing keel - great boat!
very similar to the P23, a little bit older, they can be had with centerboard/shoal keel or with a wing keel - great boat!
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