Sail and sail trim question for the group

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RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
Other 'tricks' for full keelers ....

.... and other boats too. Usually excessive heel puts a boat at a distinct disavantage over the racecourse (.... skidding off to leeward, etc.). There is ONE instance where excess heel and 'pinching up' will contribute greatly to your 'least total distance travelled'. Sailboat racing is a 'game of inches' ... every inch you gain puts you a little bit further ahead. Near the END of each upwind leg (by the magic of trigonometry versus VMG - velocity made good) if you purposely allow the boat to heel over you will be able to 'pinch up' to the end of the leg and save considerable distance (possibly several boat-lengths) to be travelled on the 'next leg'. Here's how you do it: With the boat a full speed and pointing like a banshee .... and say 95% of the 'leg' completed, ..... over tension the mainsheet so that the leech starts to 'hook to weather' ... when you over tension the mainsheet the leech of the mainsail will become 'rounded' (instead of the FLAT shape at the aft/exit area for normal sailing) ... kind of like an aircraft putting the flaps down when landing. Put LOTS of strain into the mainsheet, hook the leech/battens TO weather, the boat will start to 'go-over' on an exaggeratged heel and begin to 'climb to weather' and you may save *several boat lengths* on the NEXT leg to the weather mark. Inotherwords you are transferring the speed and momentum of the boat at the END of each leg to shorten the distance on the *next* leg by 'pinching up' when at speed (momentum of the last leg). This is a 'deadly tactic' to use on a 'slow' boat to shave off 'boat lengths' of total distance travelled. But .... dont simply heel over and pinch up too far away from where you should tack ... as this can 'put the brakes on'. Takes some practice to get it 'timed well', but its deadly in gaining boatlengths on a race course, especially if the 'tactics' being used includes a 'tacking duel' with another boat(s).
 
Sep 24, 1999
1,511
Hunter H46LE Sausalito
Mike C. that's wrong

Leeway is caused by wind, not current. Drift, which is caused by current, will not change significantly for different keel types, as long as the current is the same at various depths. The only difference is that faster boats will notice less drift because they spent less time under its effect. The less time spent in the current, the less drift. If there's no leeway involved, a powerboat traveling the same speed and direction as a sailboat will experience the same drift.
 

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
John .... this is NOT a navigation problem

its a problem due to the vectorial 'side component' (heeling component) of what 'drives' a sail/boat forward. :)
 

CalebD

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Jun 27, 2006
1,479
Tartan 27' 1967 Nyack, NY
This post was not a scam

and I must say that I am quite impressed with the depth and thouroughness of your replies. It will take me some time to digest all that has been offerred and for that I am quite grateful for the effort you have all taken to contribute. There certainly is a vast knowledge base here and I am very grateful that it is free unlike so many other boating related activities. The picture I initially posted was our boat heading to the starting line on the Hudson up by Nyack, NY. So yes, there can be up to a 2 knot current going up or down river that we regularly deal with. And yes, we usually catch up a bit on the downwind leg with the centerboard up a bit in a wing on wing sail configuration using our spin pole as a whisker pole. It is always that final upwind leg that we watch all the distance we made up erode as the other fin keel boats speed off towards the final mark as we try our best to keep our speed up on the course that we can hold. If we can incorporate just some of the information offered in this thread maybe, just maybe we can break out of the middle of the pack this coming season. Thanks again.
 
Jun 2, 2004
1,438
Oday 25 pittsburgh
RichH, A slight correction..

The hollow is not cut out. If you take two straight pieces of material and lap the 3/4" this is the start of the seam. Beginning at the draft position. The material lapping is progressively increased at the designed curvature. This is what creates the camber in the sail. Lay your sail out and you can see it in the seam. The seam will have more overlap as you move toward either the luff or the leech. Most sailmakers don't trim that. Moody, How about make him wink or something. ;) r.w.landau
 

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
You are probably confusing 'broadseaming' of the

panels with the luff hollow thats CUT away from the luff. Broadseaming creates the camber and 'roundness' of the sail; luff hollow compensates for luff sag when the sail is windloaded. :)
 
Jun 2, 2004
1,438
Oday 25 pittsburgh
RichH, You ar right, I was confused.

I wasn't folding it as you directed me to. r.w.landau
 
P

paphman

Question for Rich H

Rich H I found your information to be real informative. I do not race but do like the boat trimed as well as I can make it. At what points do you recommend telltails to be used on a 150 genoa? I now have them on the luff only. Looking forward to your reply Dale
 

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
Most 'aerodynamicists' put them:

Usually 4 (each side) on the luff about 6-8" behind the luff near the head, 2 in the 'middle' and one about 3 ft up from the tack. Usually 3 equally spaced at mid cord (both sides). 4 per side on the leech (mirroring the position of the luff ---- some just apply 4 ON the leech instead of both sides) ..... all the above will aid in shaping, setting and trimming. A 'row' of short tell-tales on each side at about 6ft high from the deck one right behind oneanother for a distance of about 6ft. Once the sails are set, shaped, and trimmed ... you use this 'row' of tales to 'steer' the boat .... insures that you are not developing a 'separation bubble' at the luff. You wont be able to 'see' the development of a speed robbing 'separation bubble' without them. If you go to arvelgentry.com etc. (posted below) you will see a pic of the set up and the directions on the best way to trim/shape. Even for cruising, tell tales are invaluable as they help optimize the 'shape' of the sails .... for a 24 hour passage if you only increase sail efficiency by 5% you save 1-1/2 hours travel time. A boat with well shaped and set sails isnt cranky, doesnt get knocked about as much, has better drive through chop, isnt going to heel as much. Especially for (tacking/gybing) downwind sailing, tell tales are invaluable as you can 'see' if the sails are 'aerodynamically flying' or merely 'dragging the wind' like a pillow case. If you're just getting into sail shaping, get a copy of Don Guilettes "Sail Trim users Guide" (available from THIS website's e-chandlery, then read (reread) the Arvel Gentry 'articles' (URL posted below). Once you start using tell tales ... all the hubb-bubb about 'weather helm', etc. simply disappears.
 
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