Safe

jviss · Sep 21, 2017

Head Sail said:
Put a lock on it if you have criminal guests.

Snarky.

Justin_NSA · Sep 21, 2017

A hand gun safe might be best if you need one. They open with a hand keypad
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

jviss · Sep 21, 2017

I saw a boat listing on yachtworld with one of those! They are good for keeping small, curious hands off them, and slowing down a crook when you're not home, if you want to keep a loaded piece by your bed.

capta · Sep 21, 2017

I carried a safe aboard my boats for years. Actually, it's around here somewhere. It is all plastic, water and fire proof to a point, and has a ½" S/S eye bolt to secure it to a similar one I used to install on the boat. In all those years, I've never had anyone come aboard and steal anything, had a boat sink or catch on fire. So the safe became more of an inconvenience than anything else.
All passports and boat/insurance/clearance/papers and the like are in the briefcase I take to clear the boat in and out of the various countries we visit. Everything else of that sort is in a file drawer in the chart table. My most valuable possessions are in the curio cabinet on the salon bulkhead, in plain site, but I doubt that they would be considered valuable by anyone else.
We have several very easily accessed, moderately well hidden places for any bundles of cash, should we be carrying them (think black market exchange rates, not wealth). We're not smuggling anything and have no cache of weapons to hide, so we do not have a hollow space in the keel or a phony water tank.

capta · Sep 21, 2017

jviss said:
Bad idea for you, good for another. How about guns? In Massachusetts waters you're still bound by the safe storage law. And if you hide a gun and a kid finds it - oh, well!

Anyone carrying a weapon in most places in the Caribbean had better not carry it in anything as noticeable as a safe, IMO. Last I heard, one couldn't even possess a hand gun in Mass, even if you had a carry permit from your own state, and were just passing through on I-95. Sounds like things have changed there.

dlochner · Sep 21, 2017

Just out of curiosity, how many people here have suffered a theft or fire on their boat that a safe would have prevented?

How many people here have been in a situation on the boat where having a weapon would have saved their life?

My answers:

I have had 2 thefts from my boat. One an outboard motor that I did not have locked. The boat had been hauled for the winter and I left the lock off. The second were kids who broke into a lot of boats one evening and only stole flares. They got caught. That theft happened right after the marina increased its security and put the boats in a fenced in yard. Never had a problem for the previous 20 years.

The answer to the second question is never. And that includes on shore.

jviss · Sep 21, 2017

dlochner said:
Just out of curiosity, how many people here have suffered a theft or fire on their boat that a safe would have prevented?

How many people here have been in a situation on the boat where having a weapon would have saved their life?

My answers:

I have had 2 thefts from my boat. One an outboard motor that I did not have locked. The boat had been hauled for the winter and I left the lock off. The second were kids who broke into a lot of boats one evening and only stole flares. They got caught. That theft happened right after the marina increased its security and put the boats in a fenced in yard. Never had a problem for the previous 20 years.

The answer to the second question is never. And that includes on shore.

That's a textbook example of the fallacy of anecdotal evidence. My house has never been broken in to, ..... Yea, until it happens to you.

dlochner · Sep 21, 2017

jviss said:
That's a textbook example of the fallacy of anecdotal evidence. My house has never been broken in to, ..... Yea, until it happens to you.

You are correct, what I suggested gathering is indeed anecdotal data. The premise of this thread has been the need to protect valuables from theft and fire; a reasonable concern? Yes. A concern supported by data? I'm not so certain, at least for sailors.

Because I'm a data based guy, I went searching for data on marine theft, specifically I went searching for data on marine theft that could be thwarted by installing a safe, i.e., the theft of money, jewelry, and other small valuables. I couldn't find any data. That doesn't mean that it isn't happening, it simply means that it is not happening with sufficient regularity or of sufficient value to warrant anyone keeping track of it.

What kind of theft data is recorded? It appears that boat theft is the only data being regularly compiled. The National Insurance Crime Bureau publishes a Watercraft Theft and Recovery Report. ( 2016 Watercraft Report | nicb.org) In 2016 only 66 sailboats were stolen as compared to 1,167 personal watercraft. The thieves just aren't interested in our sailboats (the report doesn't distinguish between a small trailerable sailboat and a larger boat).

Based on what I read, there is concern if you have a trailerable power boat, an outboard, fishing equipment and electronics that are in the cockpit. As the NICB report shows, there are stark regional differences. Florida and California rank high on the list of stolen boats (and presumably equipment) while states like North Dakota rank pretty low.

The consensus among the various articles on the topic is that thieves are lazy, they want easy targets with high value that are not easily traceable. There was some speculation that powerboat thefts were really outboard thefts, the thieves remove the outboards and trash the boat. Fishing equipment and easily removed electronics are also high value targets.

While there may be local exceptions, protecting small valuables just doesn't seem to be a big problem. I don't think thieves expect to find large bundles of cash on a boat. The risk-reward ratio just isn't good enough to take the chance. But, swiping a boat on an unlocked trailer? That's quick and clean.

I bring all this up, not to start some raging flame war or to troll the forum, but rather we humans tend to be poor judges of risk. We tend to worry more about low probability events than high probability events. We let our emotions over rule reasoned judgement. There is lots of information, backed by good research, that describes common fallacies in our judgement. A couple of notions to start with are the Confirmation Bias and the Conjunction Fallacy, google the terms or look them up in Wikipedia.

As Mark Twain is reputed to have said, "It is not what you don't know that gets you into trouble, it is what you know for sure that just ain't so."

jviss · Sep 21, 2017

Thanks, but I'm going to say it again. I don't think the PO wants input on whether he needs one, I thin he wants to know which ones are good. Of course, I could be wrong.

Sailing isn't rational to start with. It's fun, for a whole bunch of reasons. People might want safes for the same kind of reasons they want to sail. Doesn't have to make a lot of sense, or stand up to data-based scrutiny.

Where I grew up, people got robbed. Often. Valuable keepsakes were taken, as well as not-so-valuable with sentimental value.

One might also want to secure items from unauthorized use, like the guns and kids thing. One might want to protect things from fire and flood. And so on. So, not just theft, a whole bunch of reasons, including "just because."

capta · Sep 21, 2017

jviss said:
Sailing isn't rational to start with.

How so? It's been my profession for over 5 decades and a pretty decent one at that. To me it is not some part time dalliance, or 'fun' as you put it, though it is a more enjoyable occupation than any of the others I've tried.
Just exactly what is irrational about traveling the world and sleeping in your own bed every night? Or getting paid to sail some wealthy guy's yacht (or ours on charter) to some of the most beautiful places on this planet?
Just because it isn't what most consider to be the normal, necessary 9 to 5 lifestyle, that doesn't make it irrational, does it?

jviss · Sep 21, 2017

O.K., I feel bad about hijacking the OP's thread, I'm signing off. Cheers, jv

capta · Sep 22, 2017

All U Get said:
I would just add car keys and Easy Pass.
All U Get

Gee, we have the same boat and can't figure out where you carry the car. Extra heavy duty davits? Does the Easy Pass work when you go under bridges, too?

Meriachee · Sep 22, 2017

dlochner said:
In 2016 only 66 sailboats were stolen as compared to 1,167 personal watercraft.

It comes back to the same old question of where do you put it? In the case of an inland lake, unless you had the trailer to go with it, it's easy to steal a moored boat. Then what?

capta · Sep 22, 2017

Meriachee said:
It comes back to the same old question of where do you put it? In the case of an inland lake, unless you had the trailer to go with it, it's easy to steal a moored boat. Then what?

What! You never took a joyride on a boat, cleaned it up nicely when you were done, and left a bottle of Johnny Black on the salon table to say thank you? Wouldn't you want to be a fly on the wall when that owner walked below?

Meriachee · Sep 22, 2017

capta said:
Wouldn't you want to be a fly on the wall when that owner walked below?

Too damm honest I guess.

agprice22 · Sep 23, 2017

When I think of what I would put in a safe, I then think those items are supposed to be in a ditch bag.

Gunni · Sep 23, 2017

We do not carry anything that is irreplaceable except the crew. I instruct all guests to leave their fancy bling in the US. Americans are generally seen as universally wealthy, don't feed the narrative.

Ron20324 · Sep 25, 2017

I have two thoughts on this. Get a dummy electronics case and put stuff in it and bolt it in place. Or just glass a box into place with back-up money/papers. At least that way you have some back-up money if you're totally cleaned out.