Sad Story ... Sailor lost at sea ...

[zeehag]

my cable cutters look like bolt cutters with loong handles , handles are yellow instead of red....came with boat. they definitely take 2 hand to use, but do a reallly gooood job of cutting the rigging cable.
i also have bolt cutters on board.

 

[caguy]

I was one of a crew of 5 that made the same trip at the same time. Before the handheld GPS washed overboard we measured waves up to 38' and we had 6 days of constant winds from 25 to 55 kts. Although several things on our boat broke, we were obviously lucky and made it to Bermuda.

Here is a link to the closest Wunderground bouy for Nov 11, 2010. Largest waves were about 22' with a 15 sec. period.

http://www.wunderground.com/MAR/buoy/2010/11/11/41001.html

 

[Roger Long]

Largest waves were about 22' with a 15 sec. period.

I didn't miss by much then with my estimate of 19' from the post reporting 38 footers. The buoy report is consistent with for the wind duration and velocity.

 

[Ross]

I don't think that it is posible for someone in a small boat to determine wave height accurately. There is no point of reference from which to measue. It is very difficult to determine the height of a small hill while standing at the base. Add a house to the hill and then there is a reference point. I think that wave height and wave period are related.

 

[wflowe2]

How about some of you experienced guys that don't trust the GPS measurements telling us about how you estimate wave heights while your boat is surfing down the face of big waves, sometimes sideways, in constant 30-40 kt wind with gusts into the 50s and waves breaking on top of you 24 hours a day for about 6 straight days. We really didn't have time or energy to get out a tape measure and check the accuracy of the GPS readings. Anyway, the waves seemed pretty big to us.

Shemandr, to answer your questions; We were on a 46', 40 year old custom cutter. It was a heavy solid boat that previous owners have taken around the world twice. We were part of the NARC rally and were considered the geriatric crew because 4 of us were in our 60s. Yes, 5 are better than three and it sounds like it was really two since the daughter was sick and apparently not standing watches. Four of the 7 days we sailed required hand steering 24/7 due to a malfunction in the hydro vane steering system. I can't imagine how exhausting this trip would have been with only 2 to stand watches although we talked with a captain in Bermuda that came in behind us from Canada with a 2 person crew. Their auto pilot gave out along the way too. We were all experienced sailors but not in blue water. Four of the 5 of us sail on inland lakes with some bare boating in the BVI. This trip was a bucket list item for most of us and speaking only for myself, now that it has been crossed off the list, I won't do it again. Obviously had the weather been less active, my opinion may have been different but I had enough excitement and exhaustion to last me forever. I'll stick to lakes and the BVI's.

 

[Roger Long]

I don't think that it is posible for someone in a small boat to determine wave height accurately.

Actually, it is if you can move around to a point where your height of eye above the waterline is the same as wave height. You move up and down until, when the boat is in the trough, you are sighting along the tops of most of the seas or from a wave crest to the horizon. It's easier than you think to find that point and it's then just a matter of determining the height of your eye above the waterline.

The reason most people aren't familiar with this view is that, when you are out in "10 foot seas", you usually have to lie down and stick your head below the lower lifeline to find the point where your height of eye matches the wave height

 

[Roger Long]

surfing down the face of big waves, sometimes sideways, in constant 30-40 kt wind with gusts into the 50s and waves breaking on top of you 24 hours a day for about 6 straight days.

You were damn lucky. You could easily have rolled like the other boat. Doesn't sound like you'll be doing this again soon but, anyone who is, please don't embark on a trip like this until the skipper can explain exactly what kind of drogue system he is prepared to deploy. The Jordan Series Drogue is the gold standard.

 

[Ross]

The discussion in this link is appropriate for this thread.
http://asvts.com/weather/pdfs/waves.pdf

 

[shemandr]

A cruise or race to Bermuda from New England is on my bucket list too. But it may have moved down a notch or two. I would not be happy in large steep seas for days on end.

 

[Prime Time]

Multiple Tools!

What kind of cutters do people recommend ?

I attended a safety at sea seminar in anticipation of my Marion Bermuda race. There was a lecture that covered methods of cutting away rigging. It was given by a sailor with over 25,000 sea miles under his belt. His favorite method was to use a drift punch and a small sledge hammer to knock out the clevis pins from the chain plates. He said you can ignore the cotter pins, they just break.

I also bought 42" Bolt Cutters from Harbor Freight. 1/2 inch jaws that are replaceable. $35.

I'm also going to bring my rechargeable 18 volt sawzall with multiple metal blades.

 

[Ross]

Re: Multiple Tools!

Let's see how this works------------get real close to the life lines and hold on with one hand and hold the drift punch with your other hand and pick up the hammer with your other hand and get into position for swinging the hammer. Make sure that your body and face is not in the way of the suddenly released pieces.
Or just undo the turn buckle.

Edit to add: How well does an electric tool run when drenched with sea water?

 

[Prime Time]

Let's see how this works------------get real close to the life lines and hold on with one hand and hold the drift punch with your other hand and pick up the hammer with your other hand and get into position for swinging the hammer. Make sure that your body and face is not in the way of the suddenly released pieces.
Or just undo the turn buckle.

Edit to add: How well does an electric tool run when drenched with sea water?

Well, the US Sailing/Storm Trysail sponsored program chose a guy who actually had done it. He has run racing programs all over the world and has been dismasted a few times. Last I checked, a bolt or wire cutter also takes two hands!!

I suspect it would be easier with a couple of guys doing it with the drift punch and hammer.

 

[Ross]

Re: Multiple Tools!

One late afternoon about 300 yards from our dock we watched the forestay part and the mast fall on an Irwin about 28 feet long. the jib was down but the main was still up.
He got a tow back to the breakwater and several men turned out to help get things squared away. The wind was calm. It took the better part of two hours to recover the mast from the water and secure it on deck. After that we worked him back into his slip. Trying to do that in a storm would be a nightmare. Even an effort to cut the rig loose would be full of danger. What happens when you cut the tightest cable/ how will the mast react? What lines do you cut first? can you cut enough loose to let the mast trail behind so that it may be recovered later will it serve as a drogue? Is there a danger to the boat from the mast in the water? Can it be safely left as is? Can lines be attached to stabilize it?

 

[Prime Time]

All good questions

One late afternoon about 300 yards from our dock we watched the forestay part and the mast fall on an Irwin about 28 feet long. the jib was down but the main was still up.
He got a tow back to the breakwater and several men turned out to help get things squared away. The wind was calm. It took the better part of two hours to recover the mast from the water and secure it on deck. After that we worked him back into his slip. Trying to do that in a storm would be a nightmare. Even an effort to cut the rig loose would be full of danger. What happens when you cut the tightest cable/ how will the mast react? What lines do you cut first? can you cut enough loose to let the mast trail behind so that it may be recovered later will it serve as a drogue? Is there a danger to the boat from the mast in the water? Can it be safely left as is? Can lines be attached to stabilize it?

I guess you have to be there and make your best call. I'd worry most about cutting away the last attachment. Probably want some sort of helmet with polycarbonate face shield!
I would guess that my main reason for cutting away the rig would be to prevent a hull breach. Many yrs ago I remember seeing the old IOR racer Circus Maximus in Newport before she set off to break the atlantic record. She was dismasted and the rig put a hole in the hull. http://www.viva551-sailing.com/english-version/v-boot.htm

I wonder what would be easier to cut: The bronze turnbuckle body or the stainless shroud?

 

[Ross]

I
I wonder what would be easier to cut: The bronze turnbuckle body or the stainless shroud?

Probably one of the threaded screws with a bolt cutter. the cable with a shear. Quite a bit of difference in the cuttng action

 

[chuckwayne]

a lot of the offshore racers carryeither a hydraulic shear or a special tool called a shootit-its a special (one handed!) shear driven by a .22 powder charge that will cut cable and rod rigging

 

[Winkfish]

We were on a race from New Orleans to Gulfport, MS, about 12 years ago on a Cal 36. Going through the Rigolets, I was in the cockpit with the owner, his son (maybe 10 yrs old), and myself. Something (it was a rubber shroud boot) fell into the cockpit, and the son asked "What's that?" (The owner saw it and said "Oh Sh!t!! Everyone duck!!" just as the mast crumbled. It wasn't a gale, but it was blowing, and we fortunately had several guys on board. We cut a few cables, left a few attached, and pulled the mast onto the deck and tied it down.

As Prime Time said, you do what you have to do, and you can't realy plan it out too much, because the situation will always be different. One thing to remember as well, when the mast comes down, there's no longer as much pressure on the rigging as when the sail's up and flying. Basically, you're dead in the water. (I know, it would be a lot of motion in a storm, but still, you don't have the wind filling the sail.)

 

[Ross]

just imagine trying to recover the mast with just three people on board.

 

[Winkfish]

just imagine trying to recover the mast with just three people on board.

Oh, I know! It was difficult enough for us with several beefy guys.

 

[JVB]

I picture a fallen mast as a battering ram threatening bodily injury and hull damage with the passing of every large wave. How close is that to reality ?