S1 Wheel Pilot vs X-5 Wheel pilot

[Levin]

Hello everyone... So my old ST4000+ Autopilot has been dying for a while but while out cruising over the last week it really began to give up the ghost. The control head works great but the drive motor (the older black ring Mark I) has been the real problem and now it's being held together with tape and spit and I know it needs to be replaced. So now I've decided that I need a new wheel pilot system and I'm thinking of either going with the S1 Wheel Pilot or this new X-5 Wheel Pilot (both from Raymarine). Yet I have some questions and hoped that someone familiar with these products might be able to help me figure out which would be a better choice.My big questions:1) Can you add an external rate gyro to the S1 system? I know it does not come with this in the box but can you add one as the system seems to run off the S1 course computer which I think has a plug for an external gyro if you want to add it?2) Does the X-5 system come with a built in gyro? What little info I was able to gather on the new wheel pilot it sounds like it uses this "X-5" course computer which sounds like it has the gyro built in.3) What other major difference are there between the X-5 system and the S1 system? It looks like the X-5 system isn't out yet but I would be willing to wait if there was going to be a huge advantage to the newer system. What little info I could get on pricing seems to indicate that the newer X-5 system isn't likely to be a lot more expensive than the current S1 system (they seem to both range around the $1100 to $1400 area).Thanks in advance for any help... -Levin

 

[Levin]

Bump

Anyone have any knowledge about this? Thanks again...

 

[Maine Sail]

OK

Quote:"1) Can you add an external rate gyro to the S1 system?" Yes you can.Quote:"2) Does the X-5 system come with a built in gyro?"Yes it is standard with the X-5 course computer.Quote:"3) What other major difference are there between the X-5 system and the S1 system?"The only changes I see are the course computer and control head. Both units will do exactly the same thing but the X5 comes with the rate gyro. I don;t have the rate gyro on my S1 but even without it it is the finest steering AP I've ever owned..All this information and the installation manuals are available on the Raymarine web site too..

 

[higgs]

Perfect opportunity

Go with a below deck set up. they are expensive, but work so much better. You will not regret going below deck.

 

[Maine Sail]

One of..

One of the best features of the new Raymarine pilots is that you can get into a S1 WP for fairly short money and then in the future you can simply add the below deck portion if needed! I agree with Higgs that a below deck unit is far better but you do need to weigh your use. I'm currently using a S1 Wheel Pilot on a 17,000 lb displacement vessel and it has performed flawlessly for our current use which is coastal cruising.When we decided to, and have the time to do again, more offshore sailing, I will certainly be upgrading to a bellow deck unit. The S1-WP will steer a Hunter 34 with no problems as will the S1 with bellow deck apparatus only the bellow deck unit will be a lot more powerful..

 

[Joe Mullee]

Check Out This Site From Raymarine

Levin,I've been trying to get info from Raymarine on their upcoming X-5 Series Auto Pilot. Today I recieved an email from them. Enter the entire web address below into your computer and I think it may answer some of your questions.Joe Mullee  www.raymarine.com/submittedfiles/2008-Brochures/SmartPilot-X-Series_brochure.pdf

 

[Jadedcrew]

Wheel Pilots

My C36 came with an Autohelm ST4000 Plus in 1993. I have put one kit in, and carry a spare. It has steered in some mighty bad conditions for 15 years (knock on wood). While it does have some problems with big following seas (broached once while surfing DDW, wing and wing, jib poled out with a spinaker pole on a big breaking wave), it seems to steer endlessly without complaints. For my coastal cruising I will stick with a wheel pilot (whatever Raymarine has at the time of replacement).

 

[Stu Jackson]

Auto Pilots

I post this link every few years when someone mentions "failures" in follwoing seas, regardless of the equipment they have, and is not meant as a knock on anything except logic, engineering and software.http://www.c34.org/faq-pages/faq-autohelmwacky.html

 

[Stillraining]

Good read

Thanks Stu..

 

[Levin]

Thanks

Thanks everyone for the input. I think I'm likely to go with the new X-5 system when it comes out. Sounds like it does everything that the S1 system does and includes a gyro built in (which I think if I added to the S1 would cost me nearly twice as much as the base system). Does anyone know when the new system will be available?

 

[Joe Mullee]

Spring 2008

Levin,When I emailed the Raymarine rep all he told me was sometime in the spring of 2008. When I pressed for more info he said I just need to continue checking their web site. The way I even found out about the X-5 was that WM had it in an sales email I recieved earlier this month. If you get their emails it was the one that was all about electronics. I called them and they said it was new and not yet for sale but again they expected it to be out sometime in the spring. I think I still have the WM email and I think the system was listed for about $1400 which means you should be able to do a bit better at some of the other outlets when it finally hits the street.Good luck,Joe Mullee

 

[Icetug]

Right now

The X-5 is listed on the Defender.com site now, although it doesn't seem to be in stock. They do have a price of around $1250 so I guess if you order now you can get a little bit of a discount.

 

[Frank]

X5 availability

X5 Wheel Pilot supposed to arrive at WM wharehouse in California Jun22

 

[sailaway78]

Keep backing it up

They keep backing the release date up. Recently went from April to June. Apparently there are some bugs in it they are having problems with. Wonder if it will ever make it to the consumer. I have been waiting patiently on one of the new ones, but am about to go with the older Mk.1. There should be some real deals on the old model as the new one nears release.

 

[Jack Maull]

X-5 Smart Pilot vs S1 Wheel pilot

Hi, I had just the same questions and have purchased the S1 Wheel pilot. Am working through planning the install and saw this new X-5 Smart Pilot. It is an additional step to put the rudder sensor in and the S1 does not have a gyro as well as some other components. So why put in a rudder sensor if you can get around it. I called Raymarine and the technical person states that the X-5 is not yet released and may come out in August."But, I will believe it when I see it, roll outs can be delayed." You can buy the S1 and send the computer to Raymarine for an install of an internal gyro for around $450 and can buy and install an external gyro for $650 to $800. Or you can wait for the release of the X-5 and get one built in for the price of the S1 alone. I am not sure what I am going to do, but am thinking about sending the S1 back and waiting for the X-5. May not get it in till next year at the rate of the release, however.

 

[jviss]

Wheel or tiller drive to below decks?

Hey Maine,

I was surprised when i read:

"One of the best features of the new Raymarine pilots is that you can get into a S1 WP for fairly short money and then in the future you can simply add the below deck portion if needed!"

I don't think that's so, but I could be mistaken. While the corepacks associated with S1 pilots have computers that will drive below-decks drive units, it appears that the S1 Wheel and Tiller pilot computer will not. The manual for the S1 Wheel pilot shows (on page 5) the computer connections, and there are no terminals for the drive clutch.

I wold appreciate it if someone could verify this.

I find that the array of computers and displays from Raymarine is confusing, in that they name different components with the same, or similar names, as in this case: the S1 Wheel/Tiller pilot computer is not the same as the S1 Corepack computer or the inboard pilots.

 

[jviss]

Thanks, Stu

"Auto Pilots
I post this link every few years when someone mentions "failures" in follwoing seas, regardless of the equipment they have, and is not meant as a knock on anything except logic, engineering and software."

THis is good, but I initially found it confusing, since the Autohelm 4000 - AH4000 - does not have a remote compass, though there's a discussion there that indicates that folks DO, or think they do. I don't think the remote compass came until ST4000.

Also I have found the AH4000 "weak." It does not work well, or at all in heavy seas, like 5 to 10 in a 25 kt. blow. We always end up steering by hand.