S vs. D

[Brian Buzz]

Hi
Maybe you can help me on my next purchase. I am thinking of buying a new (used) Mac 26 classic. I only sail deep ocean coastal waters and have never needed to worry about the centerboard hitting bottom other than launching. The swing keel on my previous Macgregor S would bang alot when the winds were light and the ocean swells were lifting and lowering the boat when sailing. Maybe this doesn't happen much on lakes but the ocean swells are almost always there. It would also bang when we slept overnight on the boat and I would have to pull up the swing keel to get some peace. The keel bolt was serviced but still banged. I'm thinking that the D model would be better for the ocean swell (less banging). Does the daggerboard bang too? Is there as much maintenance on the daggerboard as with the swing keel? It seems to have less moving parts to go wrong and need service. The D I'm looking at is less money then the S and the boat is a 1989 that looks just like an S model. Any thoughts or opinions are much appreciated. Thanks.
Buzz.

 

[Sumner]

I'm partial to the S of course since we have been in unknown and shallow water and have hit the centerboard. We always pull it up at night and I'd do the same with a dagger board where we have been. I don't like thinking about swinging around on anchor and worrying that the board might strike something with the boat going sideways swinging on the anchor. I worry about a lot of things I probably don't need to :cry:. I also always pull the outboard up and out and also the rudder up. Just takes a minute or so.

We have only been out on the ocean in Florida for a couple months and then a number of days anchored sitting enjoying things, but I don't remember any unusual noise down there, but then Ruth says I don't hear a lot of things . One thing that might of helped is that I had new barrier paint and bottom paint on the boat and CB and it is tighter in the trunk now.

For us I would not like to have the CB trunk by the sink as we set ....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/inside-13.html

...the stove up there and I lean in from that side to do dishes there. I think the S cabin might 'feel' more open without it there, but I haven't been on a D.

One other thing to consider is that we use all....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/inside-16-a.html

...of the room under the V-berth and the D I believe has it's foam there whereas the S has it above and in front of the V-berth.

The S has the rudder inboard and the D outboard, but don't know if one or the other has an advantage. I guess you will have to weigh the above and more and make a decision.

The last item I'm aware of is that the D is suppose to be faster. We are cruisers, so this isn't important to us as I don't think it is much faster and newer sails and in our case more experience is probably a bigger factor.

Good luck with whatever you do,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

 

[Texrob]

I have an 89 D and other than the trunk taking up some galley space I see no other negatives. the flotation on the d is above the vbirth so there is no issue with storage up front. I rarely sail with the daggerboard all the way down, usually about half way. I like the fact that there is very little to fail as far as operating the
daggerboard. when I bought the boat the PO had the dagger limited to 50 percent down. I have found in most conditions this is fine and only drop it all the way in heavy air.

Good luck with finding a new boat I think you'll enjoy it either way!

 

[Sumner]

... the flotation on the d is above the vbirth so there is no issue with storage up front....

What year is you D? I swore that some of them had the floatation under the V-berth . MrBill??

I know or think I know that the last year of the D's the coaming in the cockpit slanted up like the next generation S's while the earlier ones the coaming dropped down right after the cabin and was flat. I wonder if somewhere in there the floatation also changed?

There isn't much difference on the CB operation as they both have an up-haul line. I know that some D's have had trunk damage and on some S's, the later ones it is harder to access the CB pivot pin. I found ours, a 1990 ....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/outside-40.html

...easy to check. It only took about 15 minutes to have it out. Since there isn't much weight on the pins compared to the earlier weighted swing keel pins I've never heard of one failing. I checked ours while I was painting the CB and I didn't find any damage.

Since Buzz is in deep water I don't see any disadvantage to the D other than personal preferences that we have stated. Now if he was going to be in shallow water situations like Florida or inland lakes, especially if you are going to new waters like we like to do all of the time I think it is worth looking for an S. Just an opinion,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages





Sum

 

[oreana123]

I have a D and I have managed to shear off my dboard through sheer stupidity. I now use a stock dboard. I have a deck level lifting block with a line led aft to cockpit (which makes the aforementioned grounding even worse) which makes depth adjustment very easy.

I have heard my dboard make noise when in still water and a wake from a passing boat rocks the hull. In any kind of wind, the dboard does not move and helps stabilize the boat. The simplicity of the dboard appeals to me. The dboard well strengthens the boat and holds up the mast.

The tiller to rudder linkage on the S model is different than the D as well. The D has a transom hung rudder assy that is easily accessed.

 

[Sumner]

The floatation deal intriged me so I looked at some D's.

Here is what is advertised on Sailing Texas as a 89...

.... and I can see that it has the dropped down ceiling for the floatation above the V-berth like our...

...1990 S in the picture above. It also has the high coaming like ours.

Now here is what is advertised as a 1988....

... and it looks to not have the drop above the V-berth for the floatation, so I'll bet it is under the V-berth unless it has been removed.

Looks like Roger kind of morphed from one generation of boats into the next with the D and S as he had done with some of the earlier ones and later with the X and M,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

 

[Texrob]

What year is you D?

Sum

Mine is a 1989 and the foam is where an anchor locker would be. Nothing below the v at all. Well okay there is stuff I will never use under there.

 

[Brian Buzz]

Thanks for your quick responses. As mentioned the boat is a 89 and has the higher combing and rudder on the outside. I will look around the dagger board opening in the hull for damage when I inspect it again. For me it seems like the D model will work for me at less cost. Any other info about the differences would be appreciated. Also how old do you think a normal small outboard motor's life is before it's not worth buying?
Buzz

 

[Texrob]

I just sold a 1972 Merc 2 stroke that worked great. My current 2 stroke motor came with the boat new in 89 and works great.

 

[tjar]

'89 is when they raised the combing and moved the floation above the v-berth. I have an '87 D and the entire space under the v-berth is full of styrofoam.

 

[Mic Jones]

Thanks for your quick responses. As mentioned the boat is a 89 and has the higher combing and rudder on the outside. I will look around the dagger board opening in the hull for damage when I inspect it again. For me it seems like the D model will work for me at less cost. Any other info about the differences would be appreciated. Also how old do you think a normal small outboard motor's life is before it's not worth buying?
Buzz

I couldn't figure out for a long time what year my boat was. BWY confirmed the serial number was a 1990 D. Which is the same year the S came out. So I have a few things that are standard on the S. Combing, fwd upper flotation, fwd stay mast lifting attachment. Which didn't work with the rest of the equipment that the PO handed over.

Yes the D is cheaper than the S I have the dagger board, which The PO did a nice paint job on. It broke in half when I removed it to see why it needed pushing down with a broom handle. I bought the standard Mac board which sometimes rattles at night if I forget to raise it even then I've heard it bump if not fully up. I was fooled once in the middle of night. Woke up for a pee and while sitting there I heard the bumping. Went out side to raise the DB and it was up.Got the flash light to see what bumping might be. It was sucker fish large ones. (honest Sum they were big suckers) Sucking on the algae on the hull. At some time he PO had grounded, not only was the DB damaged but the trunk had damage and was leaking from the ballast tank. The rudder has a similar story.

I have seen set ups on the forum where the DB has plastic guides/spacers (3 inch X 1 inch X 3/8 thick) attached to the side of the DB. Easy to make out of a bread cutting boards. ( wife wonders why ours is shrinking), I've made cam lock risers out of it.

Lower price was the main factor in my buying the D. Being a mechanic I bought a mechanic's special knocking the asking price down by a 1/3rd. Hardly used, never in the chuck, neglected, parked for five years. Terrible unfinished mods. I didn't know enough about Macs and it turned out to more special than I wanted. I could have bought a Mac X with the reno costs invested in it. But I'm in the water and happy with it. It goes well and getting more comfortable to live aboard with the mods I've learned about on this site.

Mac users don't have so much footitus as other boat owners do but S and D owner do have "Headitus" I like that stand up area in the X and M's. The S & D pop top are OK. especially if improvement are done to the cover, see Sum's & Ruth's.

Last thing you asked about, old motors. Mine is the original (21 years) Honda 4 stroke. Doesn't like ethanol gas. I learned this one the hard way when mooring. Broke my sounder's transducer. Other than that it is good. Service it yearly.
Mic

 

[Sumner]

.. Also how old do you think a normal small outboard motor's life is before it's not worth buying?
Buzz

What kind is it?

Our 90 Honda 8 HP runs good, but no electric start, so it is retired and probably up for sale, replace with an extra long shaft electric start Tohatsu 9.8 HP. I also partially broke a small clamp on the carb, but it seems to be fine as we ran it that way a lot.

We bought a used early 2000-2004 Nissan 5 HP off craigs list out of San Fran for the dinghy and as a backup for the Mac that had just gotten a new impeller and it runs great, but it is retired now also and replaced with a lighter 3 1/2 HP Tohatsu long shaft.

I have no idea how many hours were on the either outboard before we bought them. Knowing what I know now if I was looking for an outboard I'd shy away from one that has been used in salt water and also wouldn't buy a 2 stroke, even though I use to be a big 2 stroke fan,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

 

[MrBill_FLL]

the 1989 would be my preferred year, for the high sides and the foam over the vberth.

I think the trunk helps strengthen the boat, and the rudder is further aft a few inches. it allowed me to put the A/P further aft, and IMHO, all things equal the D would be faster. plus easier to modify the D rudder. look at the unifoil rudder..

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h169/ftldiver2/MACGREGOR/PC160016.jpg
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h169/ftldiver2/MACGREGOR/db1a.jpg
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h169/ftldiver2/MACGREGOR/db2.jpg
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h169/ftldiver2/MACGREGOR/db5.jpg

I don't notice the daggerboard banging at anchor... its the wires slapping in the mast that get me!

 

[Brian Buzz]

Thanks again for your help. The 89 maybe the boat for me.
Buzz

 

[mijoon]

Never posted before so I hope this gets on. I have n 88 D and under the V berth is filled with styrofoam.
Thanks,
Mike

 

[Sumner]

Never posted before so I hope this gets on. I have n 88 D and under the V berth is filled with styrofoam.
Thanks,
Mike

Welcome to posting and hope you keep it up :dance:,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links

 

[MacNCheese]

Lower price was the main factor in my buying the D. Being a mechanic I bought a mechanic's special knocking the asking price down by a 1/3rd. Hardly used, never in the chuck, neglected, parked for five years. Terrible unfinished mods. I didn't know enough about Macs and it turned out to more special than I wanted. I could have bought a Mac X with the reno costs invested in it. But I'm in the water and happy with it.
Mic

I think we are in the same boat here, I also bought a 26D fixer-uper for $800 off of Craigslist with a lot of work to be done and no mast. The Trailer is much nicer than the standard one and is worth at least $600, so that made it worth it. I plan to get a 26M swivel mast to make it go a bit faster. How much did yours cost Mic?

Mine is 88 and has the foam under the v-birth.

 

[Right On!]

I have an 88' D as well. I found a free, all aluminum Hobie 18 mast and boom on craigs list not too far away. I talked to "Captain Mike" before hand at the Macgregor factory about the mod i was wanting to do to my Mac, which was upgrading to a rotating mast like the 26M...and he gave it his "blessing"...after exchanging mast measurements over the phone...sounds like the H18 mast extrusion is probably the same tear drop shape as the 26M..other than that the hobie extrusion is two feet shorter than the M's 30' mast...which is perfect cince the D and S masts are 28'. I ordered all the stock 26M rotating hardware from Mike and sure enought it fits the shape of the H18 mast perfectly!
A rotatating mast will power your boat up...do it...you wont ever need to use you genoa again...your main will be your genoa now that you have made the main acually pull its weight by achieving laminar flow with the swivel mast!

 

[Right On!]

sorry for hijack

 

[Sumner]

..A rotatating mast will power your boat up...do it...you wont ever need to use you genoa again...your main will be your genoa now that you have made the main acually pull its weight by achieving laminar flow with the swivel mast!

That is great info!!

One thing I would do would be to put a toggle at the top and bottom of the forestay, especially if you are using a furler unit. Form posts on one of the other Mac boards where there are more X/M owners than here it seems that there have been more forestay failures with the rotating mast with the M.

Not something that would stop me from making the mod if I wanted the last little bit of performance, but I would add the toggles, especially at the top and it might be a good time to have a new forestay made up. You can do a search on the other board and find comments on the above,

Sum

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