I just pressure washed my 1986 H23 yesterday and I found a couple of things I would like some help with. First of all, there appears to be some small rusting areas (about 1 inch in diameter) on the keel. I assume that the outer coating has chipped etc. and has allowed water to contact something that can rust in the keel. My question is: should I be worried and what should I do. It seems that these spots may have been there when I purchased the boat last June, but it has been in the water since then and "out of sight, out of mind". Also, when I purchased the boat the owner told me that the paint on the bottom was a type that would come off like a powder when rubbed or just touched. This has proved to be true and preasure washing took a substancial amount of it off. Do I need to repaint now with a similar paint or are all bottom paints like this.
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me too
I noticed these rather large chunks of rust on my keel as well. But I was told that it is normal and chipping them off isn't necessary. I know the bottom paint you're talking about too. I have that on my rudder and it will come off with pressure washing. Probably should be reapplied. Although, my hull was painted professionally and they used a rough textured brown material that doesn't come off. I like that aspect of it...but it is rough like sandpaper. I'm wondering if that will slow me down. Also if anyone knows what this paint is called, I'd like to get a can of it but West Marine doesn't know what I'm talking about. If I can get some of this paint, I might knock the rust spots off and repaint them.
I noticed these rather large chunks of rust on my keel as well. But I was told that it is normal and chipping them off isn't necessary. I know the bottom paint you're talking about too. I have that on my rudder and it will come off with pressure washing. Probably should be reapplied. Although, my hull was painted professionally and they used a rough textured brown material that doesn't come off. I like that aspect of it...but it is rough like sandpaper. I'm wondering if that will slow me down. Also if anyone knows what this paint is called, I'd like to get a can of it but West Marine doesn't know what I'm talking about. If I can get some of this paint, I might knock the rust spots off and repaint them.
Bottom paint
I also have this 'powdery' paint on the hull of my 23, but I also know the paint's been on my hull for at least 5 years. I'm more inclined to think that it's oxidation of old paint that was once smooth... Either way, I'm repainting the bottom this season. I'm planning on stripping the old stuff off (not looking forward to that!
and repainting the whole thing with either VC-17m or Micron CSC-extra - A copolymer ablative paint, since I keep the boat on a trailer (being out of the water doesn't affect the anti-fouling properties of this paint). I'm also planning on grinding the rust spots out of the keel (yep, got those too!), filling the pits with fairing compound, running a bead of 5200 around the keel/hull joint, priming the keel, and using at least one coat of barrier epoxy on it before the bottom paint. Hopefully this will prevent the rust spots from returning, and prevent any other leaks. If I use the CSC-Micron paint, I'm probably going to have to repaint every other season due to the combination of trailering abuse and the 'wear-down' design of the paint. If I use the VC-17, I'll have a tougher paint, but it doesn't have anywhere close to the same amount of biocides- I'll be scrubbing quite a bit if I leave the boat in the water longer than a day or three. The VC-17, however, has the advantage of being much cheaper... One final note, I'm planning on using a different color scheme- Dark red bottom paint with a blue bootstripe. I'm also planning on removing the old taped-on strips and replacing them colors that match the bottom scheme. Should make quite a difference, I think... --Jon Bastien '2 Sheets to the Wind' Key West, FL
I also have this 'powdery' paint on the hull of my 23, but I also know the paint's been on my hull for at least 5 years. I'm more inclined to think that it's oxidation of old paint that was once smooth... Either way, I'm repainting the bottom this season. I'm planning on stripping the old stuff off (not looking forward to that!
and repainting the whole thing with either VC-17m or Micron CSC-extra - A copolymer ablative paint, since I keep the boat on a trailer (being out of the water doesn't affect the anti-fouling properties of this paint). I'm also planning on grinding the rust spots out of the keel (yep, got those too!), filling the pits with fairing compound, running a bead of 5200 around the keel/hull joint, priming the keel, and using at least one coat of barrier epoxy on it before the bottom paint. Hopefully this will prevent the rust spots from returning, and prevent any other leaks. If I use the CSC-Micron paint, I'm probably going to have to repaint every other season due to the combination of trailering abuse and the 'wear-down' design of the paint. If I use the VC-17, I'll have a tougher paint, but it doesn't have anywhere close to the same amount of biocides- I'll be scrubbing quite a bit if I leave the boat in the water longer than a day or three. The VC-17, however, has the advantage of being much cheaper... One final note, I'm planning on using a different color scheme- Dark red bottom paint with a blue bootstripe. I'm also planning on removing the old taped-on strips and replacing them colors that match the bottom scheme. Should make quite a difference, I think... --Jon Bastien '2 Sheets to the Wind' Key West, FLScrape and Paint
Jon has the right idea with grinding and sealing with barrier coat. My keel had plenty of rust spots when I bought it. I said maybe next spring to the keel over haul and just scraped the loose material off, painted the keel and launched her. I'll be hauling the boat out in two weeks. We'll see if I chose wisely or not. SALT SHAKER
Jon has the right idea with grinding and sealing with barrier coat. My keel had plenty of rust spots when I bought it. I said maybe next spring to the keel over haul and just scraped the loose material off, painted the keel and launched her. I'll be hauling the boat out in two weeks. We'll see if I chose wisely or not. SALT SHAKER
Bottom painting
Your keel is cast iron and if there are no coatings, it will rust. The easiest is to sand the area. Use Zinc prinmate and then epoxy the keel. You will need to remove any anti fouling paint if you plan to epoxy the entire keel. As for pressure washing the boat, it sounds like to much pressure was used when trying to clean algea, barnacles or what ever off the bottom. Since much of the paint has come off, I would remove all the paint and repaint. consider for example using Micron CSC since the effectiveness of the paint will remian the same while sitting on a trailer during the winter. Other folks have other ideas but hope this will help Happy sailing.
Your keel is cast iron and if there are no coatings, it will rust. The easiest is to sand the area. Use Zinc prinmate and then epoxy the keel. You will need to remove any anti fouling paint if you plan to epoxy the entire keel. As for pressure washing the boat, it sounds like to much pressure was used when trying to clean algea, barnacles or what ever off the bottom. Since much of the paint has come off, I would remove all the paint and repaint. consider for example using Micron CSC since the effectiveness of the paint will remian the same while sitting on a trailer during the winter. Other folks have other ideas but hope this will help Happy sailing.
zincs on the keel?
I don't have much of a rust problem (except on the inside where the centerboard goes), but I was going to install 2 zinc anodes on the keel. Does anyone have any thoughts on why that would NOT be a good idea? Jon, Do you have the centerboard model? If so, how are you going to put the 5200 on the INSIDE of the keel, where the centerboard is? Has anyone done this?
I don't have much of a rust problem (except on the inside where the centerboard goes), but I was going to install 2 zinc anodes on the keel. Does anyone have any thoughts on why that would NOT be a good idea? Jon, Do you have the centerboard model? If so, how are you going to put the 5200 on the INSIDE of the keel, where the centerboard is? Has anyone done this?
Rusty keel
Hunter, like Beneteau and others, used cast iron instead of lead as ballast material on several of its models. Nothing wrong with it, just a little more maintenance. My 25.5 had similar small spots to what you have described. You can fix these the right way but it will take a little time, like 3-4 days. First, go to the Interlux web site where you will find a very good step by step guide to fixing the problem. Essentially you have to (1) haul the boat, (2)grind out the rusty spots with an angle grinder to shiny metal, (3)dab on a little rust killer (essentially an acid), (4) cover with a barrier coat like Interlux 2000 (then another layer of barrier coat and another layer of barrier coat), (5)then bottom paint, then another layer of bottom paint. The tricky part is when applying those several barrier coats, they must be applied within a window of time of one another which is determined largely by ambient temperature. It is longer between coats when the weather is colder. The same is true with the first layer of bottom/anti-fouling paint after the last layer of barrier coat, it must be done within a prescribed time period or there is a risk that the antifouling paint will not adhere to the barrier coat. If you are a serious racer, you might also want to apply a fairing compound to the keel where you have ground out the rust spots. Usually the area removed by the grinding just isn't that large or deep so I skipped the "filling and fairing" step after the acid and just prior to the first coat of bottm paint. If you have the time, you could do the whole keel and bottom with barrier coat. This will provide good blister protection as well as rust protection on the keel. I only addressed the those spots which were rusting. When I haul it again this spring I will be able to tell if this was the right decision. If I see more rusting, I will do the entire keel and the bottom with barrier coat. The bottom line is that it can be tackled rather easily with a sander, angle grinder, and good paint. Do allow yourself enough time at the yard to do it the right way. Good luck.
Hunter, like Beneteau and others, used cast iron instead of lead as ballast material on several of its models. Nothing wrong with it, just a little more maintenance. My 25.5 had similar small spots to what you have described. You can fix these the right way but it will take a little time, like 3-4 days. First, go to the Interlux web site where you will find a very good step by step guide to fixing the problem. Essentially you have to (1) haul the boat, (2)grind out the rusty spots with an angle grinder to shiny metal, (3)dab on a little rust killer (essentially an acid), (4) cover with a barrier coat like Interlux 2000 (then another layer of barrier coat and another layer of barrier coat), (5)then bottom paint, then another layer of bottom paint. The tricky part is when applying those several barrier coats, they must be applied within a window of time of one another which is determined largely by ambient temperature. It is longer between coats when the weather is colder. The same is true with the first layer of bottom/anti-fouling paint after the last layer of barrier coat, it must be done within a prescribed time period or there is a risk that the antifouling paint will not adhere to the barrier coat. If you are a serious racer, you might also want to apply a fairing compound to the keel where you have ground out the rust spots. Usually the area removed by the grinding just isn't that large or deep so I skipped the "filling and fairing" step after the acid and just prior to the first coat of bottm paint. If you have the time, you could do the whole keel and bottom with barrier coat. This will provide good blister protection as well as rust protection on the keel. I only addressed the those spots which were rusting. When I haul it again this spring I will be able to tell if this was the right decision. If I see more rusting, I will do the entire keel and the bottom with barrier coat. The bottom line is that it can be tackled rather easily with a sander, angle grinder, and good paint. Do allow yourself enough time at the yard to do it the right way. Good luck.
h23 keel rust
I keep my '86 h23 in the ocean all year roung. The boat is hauled every year for bottom painting and I find keel rust about every second year. I have the keel ground and four layers of epoxy barrier paint applied before the usual two layers of CSC-micron. I am told that zinc anodes will not help on such a small boat without any other underwater metal fittings. The marina works yard personnel say that rust is common with all cast iron keels. s.v. "Miss Brandy" Vancouver, B.C.
I keep my '86 h23 in the ocean all year roung. The boat is hauled every year for bottom painting and I find keel rust about every second year. I have the keel ground and four layers of epoxy barrier paint applied before the usual two layers of CSC-micron. I am told that zinc anodes will not help on such a small boat without any other underwater metal fittings. The marina works yard personnel say that rust is common with all cast iron keels. s.v. "Miss Brandy" Vancouver, B.C.
Rusty H23 keel and VC17
I just had the bottom re-done after an unknown period of time in a slip on the St Johns River (I bought the boat in June). My experiences to date: a) yes, the keel does rust. I was told by other H23 owners that they all do. The yard sanded the keel and hull, then applied some rust killer to the keel before brushing on the VC17. b) To Jon Bastien...the red VC17 looks great. It was the only color left in the BoatUS store when I got there so I bought it, even though I had really wanted blue. The red VC17 looks more like very dark copper, but it did lighten a bit once the boat went in and the paint got wet. c) VC17 appears to be quite durable. Very little rubbed off when I gave it a vigorous wipe with my fingers. Compared to what was left of the previous bottom paint, VC17 is quite slick. I haven't had a chance to see if it will improve my boatspeed as the manufacturer claims, because my outboard is under repair and I can't leave the dock till this weekend (oh, the agony). d) It appears that the boat will be in the water for most of the winter (except for a few weekend excursions by trailer to the Gulf Coast), so I will be able to observe firsthand and report the antifouling capability of VC17. Stay tuned. e) If the VC doesn't hold up like I expect, Copperp1oxy is next on the list. Peter Suah "Raven"
I just had the bottom re-done after an unknown period of time in a slip on the St Johns River (I bought the boat in June). My experiences to date: a) yes, the keel does rust. I was told by other H23 owners that they all do. The yard sanded the keel and hull, then applied some rust killer to the keel before brushing on the VC17. b) To Jon Bastien...the red VC17 looks great. It was the only color left in the BoatUS store when I got there so I bought it, even though I had really wanted blue. The red VC17 looks more like very dark copper, but it did lighten a bit once the boat went in and the paint got wet. c) VC17 appears to be quite durable. Very little rubbed off when I gave it a vigorous wipe with my fingers. Compared to what was left of the previous bottom paint, VC17 is quite slick. I haven't had a chance to see if it will improve my boatspeed as the manufacturer claims, because my outboard is under repair and I can't leave the dock till this weekend (oh, the agony). d) It appears that the boat will be in the water for most of the winter (except for a few weekend excursions by trailer to the Gulf Coast), so I will be able to observe firsthand and report the antifouling capability of VC17. Stay tuned. e) If the VC doesn't hold up like I expect, Copperp1oxy is next on the list. Peter Suah "Raven"
Rust Seems Common - Good Paint/Epoxy is Key
I bought my 1986 23.5 last June also and inquired thoroughly before repainting the bottom at that time. Around here (Bay of Green Bay on Lake Michigan) the standard reply was to sand the abblative powder blue antifouling paint and go to VC-17. I saved alot of $$ by doing it myself, but it was NO FUN! I had some keel rusting also, but just sanded and applied extra coats of epoxy before applying the VC-17. When I pulled the boat for the winter, I couldn't have been more pleased...NO Zebra mussles, and with a light washing with the garden hose, had my boat ready for covering and storage. IF I find the need to touch up the bottom this spring, I am happy knowing that the paint will be dry in 20 minutes and ready for the water the same day!
I bought my 1986 23.5 last June also and inquired thoroughly before repainting the bottom at that time. Around here (Bay of Green Bay on Lake Michigan) the standard reply was to sand the abblative powder blue antifouling paint and go to VC-17. I saved alot of $$ by doing it myself, but it was NO FUN! I had some keel rusting also, but just sanded and applied extra coats of epoxy before applying the VC-17. When I pulled the boat for the winter, I couldn't have been more pleased...NO Zebra mussles, and with a light washing with the garden hose, had my boat ready for covering and storage. IF I find the need to touch up the bottom this spring, I am happy knowing that the paint will be dry in 20 minutes and ready for the water the same day!
Coal Tar Epoxy Sealer on Rusted Keel
John, The keel on my 1988 H33.5 had rusted also. There were numerous areas that had flaked off. On the last haul out, the yard sandblasted the keel and applied a coal tar epoxy sealer. I painted over it with anti-fouling paint. It seems to be holding up OK. My understanding is that part of the rusting is actually from galvanic corrosion.
John, The keel on my 1988 H33.5 had rusted also. There were numerous areas that had flaked off. On the last haul out, the yard sandblasted the keel and applied a coal tar epoxy sealer. I painted over it with anti-fouling paint. It seems to be holding up OK. My understanding is that part of the rusting is actually from galvanic corrosion.
Responses and questions...
Wow! I haven't seen that much activity for one post in one day in a long time. I have a few questions and comments- Chris - I have the fixed wing keel version. I'm not sure how you would apply 5200 to a swing keel without making it stuck in the 'up' or 'down' position... Do you have a leak in that area, or are you just looking for some extra protection? Also, zincs sound like a good idea to me, but have you considered the potential problems that could arise with raising/lowering the board, or the real effectiveness of the zinc (as one other poster mentioned)? Davor - I was a little surprised by the number of coats you used for both epoxy and for the CSC Micron - It seems you went a little heavy with the epoxy and a little light with the Micron... I was considering only two coats of epoxy and at least 3 coats Micron, maybe 4, given that the Micron paint is designed to wear off as time passes. Was there a reason for your choices regarding number of coats, or was this based on someone's advice, or-??? I'm curious because I'm planning on painting soon, and I want to make sure I consider all the factors - including other people's reasons for doing it the way they did. Peter, I'm glad to hear that the red looks good on the H-23- I was worried about it being obnoxiously bright. Did you also change the color of the 'pin-stripe' tape on the side of the hull and cabin? Do you have any pictures of 'Raven' with the red bottom? I'd love to see it before I take the plunge... Also, where do you sail on the St John's River? Finally, I'd like to extend an invitation to everyone who dreads the winter season because they can't put their boats in the water - Here in the Florida Keys, the weather is beautiful, even though the water gets a little rough in the winter time (2-3 feet inside the reef is about all the First Mate is comfortable with). If the sailing urge leads you to Key West, drop me a line... I'd love to help show y'all a good time! -- Jon Bastien H23 '2 Sheets to the Wind' Key West, FL
Wow! I haven't seen that much activity for one post in one day in a long time.
I have a few questions and comments- Chris - I have the fixed wing keel version. I'm not sure how you would apply 5200 to a swing keel without making it stuck in the 'up' or 'down' position... Do you have a leak in that area, or are you just looking for some extra protection? Also, zincs sound like a good idea to me, but have you considered the potential problems that could arise with raising/lowering the board, or the real effectiveness of the zinc (as one other poster mentioned)? Davor - I was a little surprised by the number of coats you used for both epoxy and for the CSC Micron - It seems you went a little heavy with the epoxy and a little light with the Micron... I was considering only two coats of epoxy and at least 3 coats Micron, maybe 4, given that the Micron paint is designed to wear off as time passes. Was there a reason for your choices regarding number of coats, or was this based on someone's advice, or-??? I'm curious because I'm planning on painting soon, and I want to make sure I consider all the factors - including other people's reasons for doing it the way they did. Peter, I'm glad to hear that the red looks good on the H-23- I was worried about it being obnoxiously bright. Did you also change the color of the 'pin-stripe' tape on the side of the hull and cabin? Do you have any pictures of 'Raven' with the red bottom? I'd love to see it before I take the plunge... Also, where do you sail on the St John's River? Finally, I'd like to extend an invitation to everyone who dreads the winter season because they can't put their boats in the water - Here in the Florida Keys, the weather is beautiful, even though the water gets a little rough in the winter time (2-3 feet inside the reef is about all the First Mate is comfortable with). If the sailing urge leads you to Key West, drop me a line... I'd love to help show y'all a good time! -- Jon Bastien H23 '2 Sheets to the Wind' Key West, FLSwing keel correction
Jon, I don't have a swing KEEL version. I have a fixed keel, with a fiberglass centerboard pivoting inside the aft half of the keel. Adding zincs to the keel will not affect the centerboard at all. Also, I don't see why the zincs would not be effectiffe. They work fine on outboards left in the water, and on smaller boats the outboard is the ONLY metal part in the water.... I think I'll try it and see. Since it sounds like you only have a solid keel, I'm curious about this set up. What are the rough dimensions of your keel? I wonder how much deeper it is than my steel keel (if any) Lastly, I would love the get my boat to the Keys, especially move there permanently, but its a little hard! <G> At least I'm a little better off than some of the guys up North. No winterizing in Houston! Next time I'm in the keys on vacation, I'll try to let you know, but I'm sure it will be without my boat. If you ever DO see my boat over there, that means my wife has left me and I quit my job in Houston!!! <BG> Take Care, Chris
Jon, I don't have a swing KEEL version. I have a fixed keel, with a fiberglass centerboard pivoting inside the aft half of the keel. Adding zincs to the keel will not affect the centerboard at all. Also, I don't see why the zincs would not be effectiffe. They work fine on outboards left in the water, and on smaller boats the outboard is the ONLY metal part in the water.... I think I'll try it and see. Since it sounds like you only have a solid keel, I'm curious about this set up. What are the rough dimensions of your keel? I wonder how much deeper it is than my steel keel (if any) Lastly, I would love the get my boat to the Keys, especially move there permanently, but its a little hard! <G> At least I'm a little better off than some of the guys up North. No winterizing in Houston! Next time I'm in the keys on vacation, I'll try to let you know, but I'm sure it will be without my boat. If you ever DO see my boat over there, that means my wife has left me and I quit my job in Houston!!! <BG> Take Care, Chris
Back to you Jon
Let's see if I can remember all your questions.. a) I am on the St. Johns River just downstream (west) of Lake Monroe. This lake is about 25 miles north of Orlando, and is the practical upper navigable limit of the St. Johns. Lake Monroe's claim to fame was Sailfest (the world's largest fresh water regatta, featured in Sail magazine some years ago). Unfortunately, Sailfest is no more, however it has been replaced by a substantially less formal but equally prestigious event known as the SLOBS Regatta. It is run by the Sailors Lying Over Beer Syndicate which includes an enthusiastic faction of H23 owners. The regatta will be held the first weekend in December. Unfortunately I will be out of town and cannot participate. b) the red VC looked a lot better than I anticipated. I left the blue trim stripes on the cabin as is. Yes, I did take pictures while it was still on the trailer. I should have them developed soon, and I can e-mail a couple to you if you wish. c) Key West is high on my list of places to cruise, but to be honest it is a bit of a stretch right now. I am in the middle of overhauling my outboard, then I have to replace my cabin side windows in anticipation of a trip to the Clearwater/Tarpon Springs area before the end of the year. I am hoping to get to Captiva or Sanibel Island before the heat sets in next summer. Once I have a little more open water experience I will be heading your way down US 1. Stay tuned for pics. Peter Suah "Raven"
Let's see if I can remember all your questions.. a) I am on the St. Johns River just downstream (west) of Lake Monroe. This lake is about 25 miles north of Orlando, and is the practical upper navigable limit of the St. Johns. Lake Monroe's claim to fame was Sailfest (the world's largest fresh water regatta, featured in Sail magazine some years ago). Unfortunately, Sailfest is no more, however it has been replaced by a substantially less formal but equally prestigious event known as the SLOBS Regatta. It is run by the Sailors Lying Over Beer Syndicate which includes an enthusiastic faction of H23 owners. The regatta will be held the first weekend in December. Unfortunately I will be out of town and cannot participate. b) the red VC looked a lot better than I anticipated. I left the blue trim stripes on the cabin as is. Yes, I did take pictures while it was still on the trailer. I should have them developed soon, and I can e-mail a couple to you if you wish. c) Key West is high on my list of places to cruise, but to be honest it is a bit of a stretch right now. I am in the middle of overhauling my outboard, then I have to replace my cabin side windows in anticipation of a trip to the Clearwater/Tarpon Springs area before the end of the year. I am hoping to get to Captiva or Sanibel Island before the heat sets in next summer. Once I have a little more open water experience I will be heading your way down US 1. Stay tuned for pics. Peter Suah "Raven"
When too fix?
I also have several rust spots on my 86 H34. I just hauled my boat and my question is do I need to fix these rust spots now, or can I wait and do it in the spring. I am worried that my nickel and quarter size spots will spread over the winter. Any comments or suggestions?
I also have several rust spots on my 86 H34. I just hauled my boat and my question is do I need to fix these rust spots now, or can I wait and do it in the spring. I am worried that my nickel and quarter size spots will spread over the winter. Any comments or suggestions?
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