Goona ask the perverbial dumb question.. We are new sailors, since Dec '00.....Took the plunge with MYST '79, 37 Cutter....We love it!! BTW for a really nice picture of MYST, go to LAttitudes and Attitudes May issue, table of contents page...Was taken when the previous owners were in the Bahamas.... OK, now for the question....We have no idea how/when to use the running stays.....The gent, my Ex-Friend Mike, who has been teaching us to sail isn't clear on them either...we have heard from another friend, also a good sailor, that we should be using them anytime the Yankee is deployed...are there any definative answers? Thanks in advance... 73 Ed bt
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When the staysail is deployed
The running backstays should be put to use when the staysail is deployed. The windward backstay should be pulled in, and the leeward should be relaxed. If you look at where the running backstays attach to the mast, you will see that it is at the same level as the staysail stay (say that 5 times quickly). Pete
The running backstays should be put to use when the staysail is deployed. The windward backstay should be pulled in, and the leeward should be relaxed. If you look at where the running backstays attach to the mast, you will see that it is at the same level as the staysail stay (say that 5 times quickly). Pete
H37C Running Backstay Usage
Persistence, our H37c, is my first experience with a cutter rig. We've had her 7 years now, and still love the boat. Our appreciation for the design grows each year and each time we excounter difficult sailing situations. Anyway, I'm told that when the Staysail is used, resonate vibrations may be started in the mast and this "pulsing" can become quite severe. This is because the peak of the staysail terminates part way up the mast and under some sailing/wind conditions it can start the mast "pumping" back and forth establishing this resonate vibration. The running backstays act as sort of snubbers to this pumping and thereby keeps the mast more stable. This may be an over simplified description, but it is easy to visualise. Perhaps someone else may contribute a better explaination and risk assesment. Hope this helps. MRM
Persistence, our H37c, is my first experience with a cutter rig. We've had her 7 years now, and still love the boat. Our appreciation for the design grows each year and each time we excounter difficult sailing situations. Anyway, I'm told that when the Staysail is used, resonate vibrations may be started in the mast and this "pulsing" can become quite severe. This is because the peak of the staysail terminates part way up the mast and under some sailing/wind conditions it can start the mast "pumping" back and forth establishing this resonate vibration. The running backstays act as sort of snubbers to this pumping and thereby keeps the mast more stable. This may be an over simplified description, but it is easy to visualise. Perhaps someone else may contribute a better explaination and risk assesment. Hope this helps. MRM
correct
Merrel you are correct, running backs get set when the mast starts pumping in the middle from shock loading caused by waves, wind etc. they should both be set giving the mast equal lateral support.. you can simulate this by grabbing the staysail and pumping it laterally while looking at the mast, you will see the mast bend back and forth, in line with the keel. set the backs to prevent this. Fred
Merrel you are correct, running backs get set when the mast starts pumping in the middle from shock loading caused by waves, wind etc. they should both be set giving the mast equal lateral support.. you can simulate this by grabbing the staysail and pumping it laterally while looking at the mast, you will see the mast bend back and forth, in line with the keel. set the backs to prevent this. Fred
Running Stays
Ok....Now any clue on where on the toe rail to set them in?? we bought the boat from a broker, owner had already moved out of the area, so we never got the chance to ask them.... Thanks for the help in advance... 73 Ed bt
Ok....Now any clue on where on the toe rail to set them in?? we bought the boat from a broker, owner had already moved out of the area, so we never got the chance to ask them.... Thanks for the help in advance... 73 Ed bt
It's a compromise
Ed, The best that I can tell you is that I end up making a compromise when connecting the bottom end of the running backstay to the toe rail. The further back you connect it, the more purchase or power you can develop because of the more favorable angle. However, if you connect it too far back, it starts to interfer with the operation of the boom when you're on a broad reach or more before the wind. I usually pick a spot that's far enough back to work, but not so far back as to interfer with the boom operation no matter what point of sail we're on. Then I leave it there all summer. So, pick a spot, and if the mast starts to pump on you, change your point of sail temporarily and move it back a bit until you find that nice all arround working spot. Or, you could move it every time you change your point of sail. For me, I'm too lazy and I find that sweet spot. Hope this helps. Merrill
Ed, The best that I can tell you is that I end up making a compromise when connecting the bottom end of the running backstay to the toe rail. The further back you connect it, the more purchase or power you can develop because of the more favorable angle. However, if you connect it too far back, it starts to interfer with the operation of the boom when you're on a broad reach or more before the wind. I usually pick a spot that's far enough back to work, but not so far back as to interfer with the boom operation no matter what point of sail we're on. Then I leave it there all summer. So, pick a spot, and if the mast starts to pump on you, change your point of sail temporarily and move it back a bit until you find that nice all arround working spot. Or, you could move it every time you change your point of sail. For me, I'm too lazy and I find that sweet spot. Hope this helps. Merrill
the HOW question
set the runner on the opposite side from the boom. in other words, when you're on starboard tack, the starboard runner should be taut. immediately prior to a tack, ease the active runner; set the opposite runner once the tack is completed. you'll find that the runners are probably not needed in light air, and that in heavy air/seas you may need them even if the yankee isn't set. (btw, most boats tend to set the runners as far aft as possible, which happens to be exactly where they are the biggest nuisances, but it's also where they perform best.)
set the runner on the opposite side from the boom. in other words, when you're on starboard tack, the starboard runner should be taut. immediately prior to a tack, ease the active runner; set the opposite runner once the tack is completed. you'll find that the runners are probably not needed in light air, and that in heavy air/seas you may need them even if the yankee isn't set. (btw, most boats tend to set the runners as far aft as possible, which happens to be exactly where they are the biggest nuisances, but it's also where they perform best.)
H37 runners
Right after I bought my boat in 1979, I took the the runners off as well as the baby stay and staysail. This frees up the fore deck and makes the boat much easier to handle. It also make the boat much faster. We race the old girl pretty hard and were the west florida phrf boat of the year in 1998 and 1999. Throw all that crap away and make your life easier.
Right after I bought my boat in 1979, I took the the runners off as well as the baby stay and staysail. This frees up the fore deck and makes the boat much easier to handle. It also make the boat much faster. We race the old girl pretty hard and were the west florida phrf boat of the year in 1998 and 1999. Throw all that crap away and make your life easier.
Running back to making your life easier.
After Mr Pierson has advised making one's 'life easier' maybe this will sound stupid. Mr Napoleon, set the running backs at about the same angle as the forestay (so that the mast appears to bisect the angle). This is about 3/4 to 4/5 of the way back along the boom (?). You can move them back as you need to but I would not move them much farther forward than that. Typically the leeward one is slackened to let the boom run out if needs be. On some rigs people actually set them on a piece of genny track and, rather than taking them in, haul the track car aft. This involves a LOT of leverage but you may see stuff like this on ocean-racing boats and those guys have a good idea of what's going on. Now to reiterate: the whole point of the cutter is NOT to be an efficient race boat (try dipping a pole on one). It's to be able to set and shorten sail and still keep the centre of effort where it belongs. Large single-headsail boats do not have this valuable luxury. Typically they roll some jib in and maybe reef the main, but in doing so the little scrap of jib left actually moves their CE forward which inhibits their pointing ability (doubtless the same folks who claim 'Cherubini Hunters don't point!' are probably sailing with half the jib rolled in during hefty weather). With the cutter, furl the Yankee first, reef the main maybe even twice, and you will have a very manageable, comfortable little rig for those over-30-kt forced marches home. I've got a lot of experience with double-headsail rigs and to me there is no contest. Gorilla-gripping the wheel in nasty air whilst trying to manage a large jib, whether fully set or rolled in with a now-aerodynamically-compromised headfoil, is not what I call making my life easier, sorry. Remember also that the H-37C was designed as a 'semi-retirement' boat for couples in their 50s in the Gulf, and, with small, manageable sails that do NOT require a lot of extra gear to handle, it does that job VERY well. JC 2
After Mr Pierson has advised making one's 'life easier' maybe this will sound stupid. Mr Napoleon, set the running backs at about the same angle as the forestay (so that the mast appears to bisect the angle). This is about 3/4 to 4/5 of the way back along the boom (?). You can move them back as you need to but I would not move them much farther forward than that. Typically the leeward one is slackened to let the boom run out if needs be. On some rigs people actually set them on a piece of genny track and, rather than taking them in, haul the track car aft. This involves a LOT of leverage but you may see stuff like this on ocean-racing boats and those guys have a good idea of what's going on. Now to reiterate: the whole point of the cutter is NOT to be an efficient race boat (try dipping a pole on one). It's to be able to set and shorten sail and still keep the centre of effort where it belongs. Large single-headsail boats do not have this valuable luxury. Typically they roll some jib in and maybe reef the main, but in doing so the little scrap of jib left actually moves their CE forward which inhibits their pointing ability (doubtless the same folks who claim 'Cherubini Hunters don't point!' are probably sailing with half the jib rolled in during hefty weather). With the cutter, furl the Yankee first, reef the main maybe even twice, and you will have a very manageable, comfortable little rig for those over-30-kt forced marches home. I've got a lot of experience with double-headsail rigs and to me there is no contest. Gorilla-gripping the wheel in nasty air whilst trying to manage a large jib, whether fully set or rolled in with a now-aerodynamically-compromised headfoil, is not what I call making my life easier, sorry. Remember also that the H-37C was designed as a 'semi-retirement' boat for couples in their 50s in the Gulf, and, with small, manageable sails that do NOT require a lot of extra gear to handle, it does that job VERY well. JC 2
Not Stupid, Thanks!
Thanks for your help!! We now have a better understanding of the rig... Sounds like your Dad designed the boat just for us...(49, 47...Looking to cruise, etc) We love he way she "fits" us, or is it the other way around? Maybe we fit her... Gonna go try this out...Thanks again 73 Ed bt
Thanks for your help!! We now have a better understanding of the rig... Sounds like your Dad designed the boat just for us...(49, 47...Looking to cruise, etc) We love he way she "fits" us, or is it the other way around? Maybe we fit her... Gonna go try this out...Thanks again 73 Ed bt
More Running Stays
Mr. Cherubini: Maybe I am old before my time. I am very young 40 year old whose last boat was a racing J80. (Sleeping on sail bags gets old). What I like about the Cutter Rig is the fact that you have so many options in heavy weather. As I am sure you would agree, More sails=More creativity. For pointing in particularly heavy wind, I like to keep the staysail flying and reef both the jib and main sail. I find this gives me comfortable control without losing hull speed.
Mr. Cherubini: Maybe I am old before my time. I am very young 40 year old whose last boat was a racing J80. (Sleeping on sail bags gets old). What I like about the Cutter Rig is the fact that you have so many options in heavy weather. As I am sure you would agree, More sails=More creativity. For pointing in particularly heavy wind, I like to keep the staysail flying and reef both the jib and main sail. I find this gives me comfortable control without losing hull speed.
Stable cutter
I've singlehanded my cutter across the Pacific and usually double reef the main and furl the yankee when in a blow. That configuration is solid up to 50kts across the deck and my Monitor can handle the boat quite well. My running backs are only used when the mast is pumping due to wave and wind forces. I couldn't ask for any better boat or sail plan.
I've singlehanded my cutter across the Pacific and usually double reef the main and furl the yankee when in a blow. That configuration is solid up to 50kts across the deck and my Monitor can handle the boat quite well. My running backs are only used when the mast is pumping due to wave and wind forces. I couldn't ask for any better boat or sail plan.
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