Running Rigging

Joe · Dec 9, 2014

On your 28 footer... 3/8 is plenty. Check this resource guide: http://www.apsltd.com/c-9561-resources.aspx

Forget StaSetX not worth it and hard to work with... choose one of these three for a good quality replacement. http://www.apsltd.com/c-1503-polyesterdoublebraids.aspx I particularly like the Yale ULS Yachtbraid... in solid colors. But the Samson XLS and New England Sta Set will work fine.

If you want to splurge with a high end product, the dyneema cored line is awesome for halyards...you can save money by down sizing it to 5/16 because it's so much stronger.(as long is it fits the cleat) http://www.apsltd.com/c-1611-dyneema-core-double-braids.aspx

$tingy Sailor · Dec 9, 2014

I've been happy with New England Ropes VPC for my halyards as an upgrade from polyester without the high cost of Dyneema. It's less stretchy than Sta Set and has a stiffer hand so it doesn't hockle as easily. I use regular Sta Set for everything else.

If you watch for bulk rope to come up as the Fantastic Friday sale at West Marine (watch online), you can get it for less than most other competitors. Last year, it was 40% off and free shipping to store. Did the whole boat with lines led aft for $450.

Brian S · Dec 15, 2014

When it comes to cheap polyester double braid rope, the cheapest I've found is Sampson LS Yacht Braid from the chandlery right here: http://shop.sailboatowners.com/prod.php?13688/

Personally, I like New England Ropes Salsa for sheets.

I got some NER Sta-Set X once thinking I'd use it for control lines. Man, I don't know what they use for the core in that stuff, but I think it's crap! I've been using VPC for outhaul, reefing lines, etc. and I like it fine.

pateco · Dec 15, 2014

Have any of you used Cajun Rope?

Cajun XLE Cajunrope.com

3/8 Low stretch polyester double braid $.54/foot

Jackdaw · Dec 15, 2014

pateco said:
Have any of you used Cajun Rope?

Cajun XLE Cajunrope.com

3/8 Low stretch polyester double braid $.54/foot

Its very stretchy. Their spectra stuff is good.

Brian S · Dec 15, 2014

Dang, Pateco found me 3/16" polyester for my jib downhaul at $0.02/ft cheaper than my cheapest yet!

Guys like Jackdaw are probably not going to like any kind of polyester double braid for a few reasons. 1) jackdaw is an accomplished racer looking for high performance 2) Polyester is stretchier than any high tech line such as Dyneema, Spectra, or Vectran 3) Polyester absorbs water when it gets wet, making it even heavier, and thus lower performance. More weight on board = slower. More weight aloft, as in halyards = more heeling moment and a boat that gets overpowered slightly faster.

Now, I'm not saying this about Jackdaw in any kind of bad way, though I am putting words in his mouth, sorry about that. No, I value what he says. And we all know I wish I lived closer to him so I could race with him, I know I'd learn a lot

Joe · Dec 15, 2014

Brian S said:
Dang, Pateco found me 3/16" polyester for my jib downhaul at $0.02/ft cheaper than my cheapest yet!

Guys like Jackdaw are probably not going to like any kind of polyester double braid for a few reasons. 1) jackdaw is an accomplished racer looking for high performance 2) Polyester is stretchier than any high tech line such as Dyneema, Spectra, or Vectran 3) Polyester absorbs water when it gets wet, making it even heavier, and thus lower performance. More weight on board = slower. More weight aloft, as in halyards = more heeling moment and a boat that gets overpowered slightly faster.

Now, I'm not saying this about Jackdaw in any kind of bad way, though I am putting words in his mouth, sorry about that. No, I value what he says. And we all know I wish I lived closer to him so I could race with him, I know I'd learn a lot

If you want to save more money, go to a smaller size for you jib downhaul.. there's hardly any load on the line and the smaller the better.. I put 5/32 Marlow - Excel Pro as my jib downhaul, it's around 35 cents/foot... could have gone down to 1/8 even.

Jackdaw · Dec 15, 2014

Brian S said:
Now, I'm not saying this about Jackdaw in any kind of bad way, though I am putting words in his mouth, sorry about that. No, I value what he says. And we all know I wish I lived closer to him so I could race with him, I know I'd learn a lot

Brian,

All good, and I didn't mean to imply that Cajun is bad cordage... it just stretches more then the line it's compared to. Knowing this I've bought some, and have also recommended it to friends. Gary is a good man.

It's fine if you're less worried about performance, OR (as Joe notes) you use it in less demanding applications.

For halyard and sheets, any stretch in line is energy that could have gone to propelling the boat forward lost. On our boat boat, that line would stretch over TWO FEET on a loaded spin halyard! But there are places than even on a high performance boat, you can safely use lesser line. Mainsail topping lifts, as well as spinnaker topping lifts come to mind.

pateco · Dec 15, 2014

How about this one? They are local to me, and I could pick up 3/8 at $.51/foot

Miami Cordage Double Braid

Brian S · Dec 16, 2014

There are plenty of considerations for rope. UV resistance is a big one for us boaters, and I think why polyester is always a go to, it being more UV resistant than some other fibers, such as nylon and polyethylene.

We also need to look at strength. All good rope manufacturers should publish breaking strength numbers for their ropes.

Also, we generally want rope that is not stretchy. This is why we don't use nylon for sail control. Polyester is less stretchy than nylon, but definitely stretchier than other high tech lines. Good rope manufacturers will also publish elongation statistics for their rope, generally as percentages of elongation at various percentages of max load.

So, you need to think of your application, and get characteristics to match. For example, a polypropylene line that doesn't have great UV resistance, but is very light and does not absorb water, is a good choice for spinnaker sheets. Vectran and some Dyneema is good for halyards, because they have very low stretch. Dyneema is UV resistant, doesn't absorb water, and has low stretch, so it can be much better for halyards than polyester, because it can be run at smaller diameters, and the cover can be stripped for less weight aloft. Double braid polyester has always been a go-to for sheets, because it's fairly stretch resistant, it often stays out in the sun, works with cam and jam cleats well, and it's not terrible expensive, so that's another reason it shows up a lot on cruising boats.

So, anyway, if you can get breaking load figures, and % of elongation figures for 2 different polyester double braids from 2 different companies, that can help to compare them and inform your decision.

pateco · Dec 17, 2014

My Wife Michelle picked up our new halyard yesterday. We went local with the 3/8 Miami Cordage Double Braid from a local chandlery. 105' of 3/8 blue fleck with halyard eye whipped at both ends for $95 +tax, and no shipping.

It looks pretty nice to me.

I will see this weekend when we try out our new (used) mainsail.

Ron20324 · Dec 17, 2014

pateco said:
...with halyard eye whipped at both ends for $95 +tax, and no shipping...

Are you sure you can lead the eye through blocks or linestoppers or....???

pateco · Dec 17, 2014

Ron20324 said:
Are you sure you can lead the eye through blocks or linestoppers or....???

Going to pull it the other direction. From the top of the mast down using the whipped end so the new eye never has to go through a block. I will need to remove the shackle, and cut the eye off of the old halyard in the picture below.

Still thinking on how to attach the two ends together for the pull. I do RF satellite wiring as part of my business, so I have jet line/ Mule Tape, but I normally tape that to my wires with black vinyl electrical tape, and I don't want to get the adhesive residue on my new halyard line.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

Brian S · Dec 17, 2014

Take some whipping twine and a needle, and stitch the two halyards together end for end, about 3/4" up from the end. Loop it between the two lines a couple of times, and wrap with a wrap of masking tape if you want. Even skinny whipping twine is pretty strong, and there won't be too much load on it with 4 or 5 wraps. And the masking tape will be low profile and will keep the join smooth and not too stiff.

caguy · Dec 17, 2014

pateco said:
Going to pull it the other direction. From the top of the mast down using the whipped end so the new eye never has to go through a block. I will need to remove the shackle, and cut the eye off of the old halyard in the picture below.

You don't have to cut the eye, just pull a messenger line through using the old line and then use the messenger to pul the new line back eyeless end first.
BTW I use a small zip tie to thread through the rope and attache to each other butt to butt. A paper clip wire also works.

Brian S · Dec 18, 2014

Caguy has some good ideas. I've heard of the unbent paperclip to wire butt ends together.

I happen to have whipping twine and polyester sailmaker's twine (which is considerably thicker than the whipping twine) on board, so I'd probably use that

pateco · Dec 21, 2014

Got my new halyard installed.

Used the Zip tie method. Pulled some 560 Paracord with the old halyard, and then used that to pull the new halyard back.

caguy · Dec 22, 2014

I'm glad it all worked out for you, the first timeI tried, it went through so smoothly I could not feel the zip go through.
BTW: What is all the tape for?