Running Rigging confusion

[Minnesota_Slick]

Hi folks,

I've got a 1977 Ericson 29' that needs new running rigging. I'm ordering the rigging using the SailbotOwners.com running rigging calculator, which is an awesome tool!

I'm a little unsure about whether I should order the lines with or without whipped ends, and with or without spliced and shackled ends.

- Can I assume that if I'm replacing the current rigging, that I should order everything with whipped ends and with spliced and shackled ends?

- Or, is the correct answer "It depends", based on which halyard or sheets that we're talking about?

My boat currently has rope-to-wire mainsail and jib halyards, and I think I want to go with just rope halyards for the new ones.

Any advice you can give me will be very much appreciated, as I'm a little over my head in this endeavor.

 

[Ron20324]

I suggest non-whipped. The ends should be melted when you get them anyway. Then, when you get them, do it yourself for the practice & skill developement. /// The shackle splices need to be properly done- and you should be able to do it- but this is a bad place for "practicing/learning". Unless you have time to spare to do it properly before you install them, have it done for you. Perhaps a skilled dock-neighbor and a six-pack will get it done? I do mine, and it's a feeling of accomplishment.

 

[Gunni]

Spliced, shackled with flat loop ends for halyards. Pre-whipped or whip-yourself for sheets and control lines. Yes, lose those rope to wire halyards. Make sure you have the right halyard sheaves for rope.

 

[Minnesota_Slick]

Make sure you have the right halyard sheaves for rope.

By this, I assume that you mean that the current sheaves might be too narrow for the 3/8" line due to having thin wire going through them previously.

If I needed new sheaves, is that something that can be done by my rigger via the crane and bosun's chair at the marina, or would the mast most likely have to be stepped?

 

[Benny17441]

If you are just interested in getting the job done in a clean fashion I would suggest you spend the extra money and get the lines end whipped and spliced with replacement shackles where required. Let them do it as unless you have previous experience with whipping and splicing you may not be happy with the end result. Let the professionals do the finishing and if something does not come out right let them replace it on their dime.

 

[Minnesota_Slick]

Thanks for the replies so far, I really appreciate it. Adding to the fun of this endeavor, my rigger informed me that some sheaves on Ericson sailboats are welded on, and some are not. He's going to have to go up top to see what we're dealing with.

 

[Gunni]

Thanks for the replies so far, I really appreciate it. Adding to the fun of this endeavor, my rigger informed me that some sheaves on Ericson sailboats are welded on, and some are not. He's going to have to go up top to see what we're dealing with.

So if you need to cut out the sheaves I would take the opportunity to have a full inspection R/R on your spar and standing rigging. Maybe unstep the mast. A vintage 1977 boat should have already had a standing rigging replacement and chain plate inspection...probably not the suggestion you were looking for...welcome to 'yachting'

 

[Stu Jackson]

1 - Can I assume that if I'm replacing the current rigging, that I should order everything with whipped ends and with spliced and shackled ends?

2 - Or, is the correct answer "It depends", based on which halyard or sheets that we're talking about?

1. What do you have now? That would be a good starting point.

2. Yes.

Another good resource for you is:

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/forumdisplay.php?1-Maintenance-amp-Mechanical

Good luck.

 

[Minnesota_Slick]

1. What do you have now? That would be a good starting point.

2. Yes.

Another good resource for you is:

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/forumdisplay.php?1-Maintenance-amp-Mechanical

Good luck.

Thanks, Stu. I'm going to need it. I'm already a member and regular poster over on the Ericson forums. And apparently, just because one E29 has removable sheaves, doesn't mean that mine will. At least, that's what my rigger's experience has been.

As to what I have now, I wish I could answer that with 100% confidence. I've owned the boat for two years, but I'm still learning all the correct lingo and hardware pieces.

I'm a DIY'er, but in this area, as well as with the standing rigging, I'm going to let the pro's do the work. My rigger did say that if removing the sheaves is too cost prohibitive, that replacing the current rope/wire halyards with a new set of rope/wire halyards would be a good option. He recommended not trying to splice a new rope into the existing wire, as that is something you don't want to get wrong for obvious reasons!

I guess the old saying that a boat is a hole into which money is poured, is a very true statement.

 

[Minnesota_Slick]

A vintage 1977 boat should have already had a standing rigging replacement and chain plate inspection...probably not the suggestion you were looking for...welcome to 'yachting'

I agree, Gunni. In fact, I already purchased a couple of rolls of butyl tape, with which my lovely first mate and myself are going to be rebedding all of the deck hardware in an effort to stop the remaining water intrusion into the cabin.

In addition to that project, we're Kiwi-Gripping the non-skid surfaces of the deck, refinishing all the teak, etc, etc.

Who's got time to sail with all the fun weekend projects to do!

 

[DougM]

Depending on your interest and the depth of your pocketbook, look at doing some of the labor yourself. It could be a great learning experience.
Whipping is really quite easy to accomplish, and doesn't take very much time.

Splicing of shackles is also relatively easy, especially on new line.. As an alternative to splicing on the shackles, tie them on with an anchor bend, and put constrictor knot on around the bitter end and the bight. That makes it easy to change the halyard end for end regularly without the need to destroy a splice.

 

[Capt jgw]

Before ordering all rope, check not only the sheaves, buy that the rope will fit through the holes or slots to get to the sheaves. On my prehistoric Columbia 36 it won't, I had to stay with wire.

 

[Minnesota_Slick]

Before ordering all rope, check not only the sheaves, buy that the rope will fit through the holes or slots to get to the sheaves. On my prehistoric Columbia 36 it won't, I had to stay with wire.

Great idea, I'll take note of that, too. Thanks!

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

Gave up splicing halyards years ago- like 20. Wastes too much line when you have to renew the nip, plus the splice can jam in the sheave.

Now, I use a Buntline hitch on ALL halyards. Totally secure, and the hitch prevents jamming.

As for the whipping- learn to do it yourself- great skill, which comes in handy when "out there" and a whip comes undone. And they will

 

[Joe]

Great idea, I'll take note of that, too. Thanks!

An alternative for a wire to rope replacement...when the sheaves are too narrow for the larger diameter all rope halyard... is to built a "tapered" halyard... Use a high tech, single braid core such as dyneema or technora... and cover the handled and cleated end with an inexpensive polyester jacket. Ask your rigger.... I built mine for my Cat 27 for exactly for the reason mentioned... it was fun and the total cost was much less than a new wire to rope....

On my boat the jib halyards the cores are 80 ft of 3/16 Samson Amsteel, covering is 40 ft of 5/16 Samson LS. The LS core is uses as a messenger to fish the dyneema through. Two splices... a taper or bury splice (where the cover is buried into the core for a smooth tapering transition.) and a "luggage tag" (large loop eye splice) created on the shackle end. The luggage tag eye splice allows you to bend on or remove the shackle without disturbing the integrity of the line.

 

[shemandr]

As to the OP: I would order a new rope halyard with a eye splice on it and a shackle. And I would want the other end whipped. That's assuming that you are ordering the correct length as per the calculator and are not planning to cut the tail to length.
I don't think the wire/rope option is a bad alternative. I can't imagine that it's so much more expensive and these are known to last decades. You still need to inspect the sheaves to see if the current wire has damaged them over the years. I would probably replace them as part of a system. Why have new wire on worn sheaves? Jammed halyards are potentially dangerous and certainly a giant PITA. They have sometimes led to the dreaded flare gun takedown.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Absolutely ...

An alternative for a wire to rope replacement...when the sheaves are too narrow for the larger diameter all rope halyard... is to built a "tapered" halyard... Use a high tech, single braid core such as dyneema or technora... and cover the handled and cleated end with an inexpensive polyester jacket. Ask your rigger.... I built mine for my Cat 27 for exactly for the reason mentioned... it was fun and the total cost was much less than a new wire to rope....

On my boat the jib halyards the cores are 80 ft of 3/16 Samson Amsteel, covering is 40 ft of 5/16 Samson LS. The LS core is uses as a messenger to fish the dyneema through. Two splices... a taper or bury splice (where the cover is buried into the core for a smooth tapering transition.) and a "luggage tag" (large loop eye splice) created on the shackle end. The luggage tag eye splice allows you to bend on or remove the shackle without disturbing the integrity of the line.

Have the SBO store do this (and whip the tail end) for the best result!

 

[Minnesota_Slick]

So many great ideas and advice in this thread, thanks everyone! I'm going to send this thread to my rigger and we'll come up with a game plan once we know what we're up against.

 

[Joe]

Have the SBO store do this (and whip the tail end) for the best result!

Sorry Scott, I know we're not encouraged to hot link other vendors if SBO offers the same product.. but I saw no mention of the type of service in their rigging store.. it's pretty basic.

I know where you can get it done.. but I don't want anyone to think I'm pimping for the competition.

 

[Ward H]

I think there are two basic options:

For the person who wants to research rope, learn to tie knots, splice/whip lines and choose their own shackles, they don't need the running rigging calculator. They can research, learn and do. But it does take time.

For the person who has many projects lined up and are spending their time learning and doing other things, that can't be bought from a store, the running rigging calculator is a great way to get new lines that are ready to go.

As to wire/rope or all rope, let your sheaves (and costs) be the guide.

APSLTD may offer options not available from this site's store.