I want to run lines aft on my hunter 23. I have checked the archives and still have questions. For the main halyard I will run the halyard to a mastbase turning block, then to a double deck organizer, then back to a double rope clutch. I have two questions. Do I mount the mastbase turning block to the mast or the top of the boat? the second question is how do I get the Jib halyard from the port side of the boat to the same organizer. If anyone has a picture of the base of the mast it would be great. thanks
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Halyards run to cockpit
You can mount the turning blocks on the bottom of the mast or on the cabin house next to the mast step, that's really up to you. I thru bolted two eye straps with bullit blocks on my mast instead of a double turning block on the cabin house. I figure the less holes drilled in the boat the better. As for the getting the halyard to the same side of the mast, you have to cut a hole, fish the halyard out and pop rivet a halyard exit plate on the mast. Be sure to stager the exit plates, don't put it next to the other one. That would weaken the mast at that spot. Just be sure to thru bolt not just screw every thing you put on the cabin house, and be sure to seal every hole. This is a great upgrade that you will really love when it's done.
You can mount the turning blocks on the bottom of the mast or on the cabin house next to the mast step, that's really up to you. I thru bolted two eye straps with bullit blocks on my mast instead of a double turning block on the cabin house. I figure the less holes drilled in the boat the better. As for the getting the halyard to the same side of the mast, you have to cut a hole, fish the halyard out and pop rivet a halyard exit plate on the mast. Be sure to stager the exit plates, don't put it next to the other one. That would weaken the mast at that spot. Just be sure to thru bolt not just screw every thing you put on the cabin house, and be sure to seal every hole. This is a great upgrade that you will really love when it's done.
Thanks John
I think I am going to follow your example with the eye straps and and maybe a double bullet block. THis is my first boat and I don't like drilling holes in it either. I sailed it last year on Lake Michigan. Was into 25 knot winds and 6 foot waves while trying to get the jib and main down by myself at the harbour mouth. coulnt keep the boat steered into the wind long enough to drop the sails. This should help alot. I added a 180 asymetrical cruising spinnaker this past summer from UK sails and it really moves the boat. Will probably add a clutch for that at the same time on the prt side to handle it. my only other addition this summer will probably be a depth sounder/fish finder. THanks again for your help. Father Mark Ecclessia is the boats name.
I think I am going to follow your example with the eye straps and and maybe a double bullet block. THis is my first boat and I don't like drilling holes in it either. I sailed it last year on Lake Michigan. Was into 25 knot winds and 6 foot waves while trying to get the jib and main down by myself at the harbour mouth. coulnt keep the boat steered into the wind long enough to drop the sails. This should help alot. I added a 180 asymetrical cruising spinnaker this past summer from UK sails and it really moves the boat. Will probably add a clutch for that at the same time on the prt side to handle it. my only other addition this summer will probably be a depth sounder/fish finder. THanks again for your help. Father Mark Ecclessia is the boats name.
my way
Father Mark..........your post leaves some questions. First of all. Which mast do you have? My '87 H23 with Z Spar mast has exit holes already installed at the mast base. I needed only add sheaves and could run the halyards out either side. I don't understand how John could turn the lines aft from the mast base without going over the cabin pop up hatch. I'll attach a picture to show how I got around the cabin hatch. I also got a cruising spinnaker from UK sailmakers. I LOVE it. It's a fun sail in light air and can make the difference between motoring and sailing in light air. You really don't need a clutch for that though. Get a dousing sock and leave it attached to the mast head. And trailer that baby down to Indian Lake in Ohio for the big H23 Regatta in August!
Father Mark..........your post leaves some questions. First of all. Which mast do you have? My '87 H23 with Z Spar mast has exit holes already installed at the mast base. I needed only add sheaves and could run the halyards out either side. I don't understand how John could turn the lines aft from the mast base without going over the cabin pop up hatch. I'll attach a picture to show how I got around the cabin hatch. I also got a cruising spinnaker from UK sailmakers. I LOVE it. It's a fun sail in light air and can make the difference between motoring and sailing in light air. You really don't need a clutch for that though. Get a dousing sock and leave it attached to the mast head. And trailer that baby down to Indian Lake in Ohio for the big H23 Regatta in August!
Thanks mike
I must not have the z-spar mast, my mast does not have exit holes at the bottom. My boat is a 1987 also. . There is a 5 inch grove at the bottom of each side of my mastbase that the bolt that bolts down the mast goes into. I must go above the u-shaped metal mast base that the mast fits into to bring the halyard out. Thanks for the picture, I will probably run everything else like your picture. I did not plan on putting the wench on the cabon top. Do you feel that is necessary? Could you not use the existing winch at the cockpit on the starboard side? I am very much a novice and appreciate advice here. THanks again Father Mark
I must not have the z-spar mast, my mast does not have exit holes at the bottom. My boat is a 1987 also. . There is a 5 inch grove at the bottom of each side of my mastbase that the bolt that bolts down the mast goes into. I must go above the u-shaped metal mast base that the mast fits into to bring the halyard out. Thanks for the picture, I will probably run everything else like your picture. I did not plan on putting the wench on the cabon top. Do you feel that is necessary? Could you not use the existing winch at the cockpit on the starboard side? I am very much a novice and appreciate advice here. THanks again Father Mark
cruising spinnaker
Mike, I love my spinnaker too. I have sailed 30 miles out onto lake michigan in the full moonlight at midnight when you could not even tell if the wind was blowing, yet the spinnaker was flying and pulling me to Washington Island. Never forget the sight of a full moon comming through the spinnaker while lake michigan was like a sheet of glass, not a ripple. I also tried to set the spinnaker in a 20 knot wind without the sock, I have a sock also. I had taken it off and reloaded it incorrectly, so I tried to fly it in big wind with no sock......It popped open and as I topped a 5 foot wave, the boat rolled to the port side and drug me across the deck, I let go of the tack lines and let it drop into the lake and the boat righted itself quickly, but I will never try that again.....at least not without a properly functioning sock. The clutch for the spinnaker would be for the tack line which I run back over my cabin. I work the tack line in and out sometimes depending on wind angle. But again I am just leanring, first year sailing was great fun, scary at times, but the h23 is very forgiving.
Mike, I love my spinnaker too. I have sailed 30 miles out onto lake michigan in the full moonlight at midnight when you could not even tell if the wind was blowing, yet the spinnaker was flying and pulling me to Washington Island. Never forget the sight of a full moon comming through the spinnaker while lake michigan was like a sheet of glass, not a ripple. I also tried to set the spinnaker in a 20 knot wind without the sock, I have a sock also. I had taken it off and reloaded it incorrectly, so I tried to fly it in big wind with no sock......It popped open and as I topped a 5 foot wave, the boat rolled to the port side and drug me across the deck, I let go of the tack lines and let it drop into the lake and the boat righted itself quickly, but I will never try that again.....at least not without a properly functioning sock. The clutch for the spinnaker would be for the tack line which I run back over my cabin. I work the tack line in and out sometimes depending on wind angle. But again I am just leanring, first year sailing was great fun, scary at times, but the h23 is very forgiving.
Reply to other posts
For Mike, yes I do have a double check block out at the edge of the cabin house to turn the halyards back to the clutchs. To Father Mark, yes you can and most do move the winch off the the mast and put it on the cabin house. It's really up to you, but it becomes worthless on the mast once you move everything down to the cabin house so you might as well move it too. If you have the white painted Kenyon mast like I do then there are no halyard exits in the bottom of the mast like the Z-Spar. You should put the halyard exit plate about 2-3 feet above the mast step, not down at the bottom. As for using a double block on one eye strap, well I went for singles on two eye straps just to spread the load out. Just make sure you thru bolt with flat washers on the inside. Hope this helps.
For Mike, yes I do have a double check block out at the edge of the cabin house to turn the halyards back to the clutchs. To Father Mark, yes you can and most do move the winch off the the mast and put it on the cabin house. It's really up to you, but it becomes worthless on the mast once you move everything down to the cabin house so you might as well move it too. If you have the white painted Kenyon mast like I do then there are no halyard exits in the bottom of the mast like the Z-Spar. You should put the halyard exit plate about 2-3 feet above the mast step, not down at the bottom. As for using a double block on one eye strap, well I went for singles on two eye straps just to spread the load out. Just make sure you thru bolt with flat washers on the inside. Hope this helps.
me again
I agree with John that you probably have the white Kenyon mast and I'd go with his suggestions on exit holes for the halyards. As for the winch I also agree that you don't need it on the mast once your lines go aft. You can use the jib sheet winch but it's an awkward angle. One thing I did use my mast mounted winch for was for tailing the hauling line while stepping the mast by myself. But this job is best done with a helper anyway, tailing the line from the jib sheet winch. And finally, I still wouldn't put any running rigging for my spinnaker through a rope clutch. Keep it cleated on a cam cleat for easy removal when jibing or dumping air. Love those 23s!
I agree with John that you probably have the white Kenyon mast and I'd go with his suggestions on exit holes for the halyards. As for the winch I also agree that you don't need it on the mast once your lines go aft. You can use the jib sheet winch but it's an awkward angle. One thing I did use my mast mounted winch for was for tailing the hauling line while stepping the mast by myself. But this job is best done with a helper anyway, tailing the line from the jib sheet winch. And finally, I still wouldn't put any running rigging for my spinnaker through a rope clutch. Keep it cleated on a cam cleat for easy removal when jibing or dumping air. Love those 23s!
Thanks again mike, just one or two more questions
I don't mean to be stupid, but is a white kenyon mast literally "white" or is that just the name. Also, where would you put the cam cleat, I really don't know the difference between a cam cleat and a clutch, but your comments lead to want to follow your lead. I have been holding the tack line in one hand and the tiller and sheet in the other, but still having a ball. Ok, one last question, where did you get the two little metal rods that hold your cabin proped open, what a great idea. Did it come on your boat? Thanks again for all your help. Father Mark (priest/ sailer wanna be)
I don't mean to be stupid, but is a white kenyon mast literally "white" or is that just the name. Also, where would you put the cam cleat, I really don't know the difference between a cam cleat and a clutch, but your comments lead to want to follow your lead. I have been holding the tack line in one hand and the tiller and sheet in the other, but still having a ball. Ok, one last question, where did you get the two little metal rods that hold your cabin proped open, what a great idea. Did it come on your boat? Thanks again for all your help. Father Mark (priest/ sailer wanna be)
White Kenyon Mast
Father Mark, The white Kenyon masts are painted white and should have a Kenyon sticker on them. They were used on the first few years of the H23's, first three I think. The same spar company J-boats used on their boats, very strong, very beefy, very similar to the J-24 except not tapered at the top like the J-24 mast. A cam cleat has two jaws that hold the line, to release you just pull the line up and out of the jaws. Cam cleats are usually used for sheets and control lines. A clutch is a type of cleat that is used for halyards, it looks like a box that the halyard runs thru with a handle on top that locks down on the line. Being new to sailing you have alot of terminology to learn but the more you read, the more you look, the more you ask, the more you learn.
Father Mark, The white Kenyon masts are painted white and should have a Kenyon sticker on them. They were used on the first few years of the H23's, first three I think. The same spar company J-boats used on their boats, very strong, very beefy, very similar to the J-24 except not tapered at the top like the J-24 mast. A cam cleat has two jaws that hold the line, to release you just pull the line up and out of the jaws. Cam cleats are usually used for sheets and control lines. A clutch is a type of cleat that is used for halyards, it looks like a box that the halyard runs thru with a handle on top that locks down on the line. Being new to sailing you have alot of terminology to learn but the more you read, the more you look, the more you ask, the more you learn.
Mike - your photo
Mike - what is that white curved bar between the boom vang and mast? I can't quite tell but it looks like your boom vang cleat is at the top (boom) end? Is that right? Mine is at the mast base end. Do you see an advantage having it at the top? Does it make it hard to use when the boom is over the side, and doesn't the free end of the line dangle about? ...RickM...
Mike - what is that white curved bar between the boom vang and mast? I can't quite tell but it looks like your boom vang cleat is at the top (boom) end? Is that right? Mine is at the mast base end. Do you see an advantage having it at the top? Does it make it hard to use when the boom is over the side, and doesn't the free end of the line dangle about? ...RickM...
Boom Kicker
Rick M What you see in Mike's photo is a boom Kicker, replaces the topping lift to hold the boom up. It also helps sail shape in light wind conditions. I'd like to hear form Mike on if he likes it as I've toyed with the idea of installing one on my boat.
Rick M What you see in Mike's photo is a boom Kicker, replaces the topping lift to hold the boom up. It also helps sail shape in light wind conditions. I'd like to hear form Mike on if he likes it as I've toyed with the idea of installing one on my boat.
answers
Ok........lemme see..........I love the boomkicker as it eliminates the topping lift. When I drop the main I never have to worry about the boom falling in my lap. Yes I cleat my vang at the top because it's closer to me than the mast base. Otherwise I don't think it makes a difference. Yes I have a dangling line but I've got lots of dangling lines near the front of my boom. They are color coded. And to Father Mark. I think you had an assymetrical (spp.?) spinnaker like me. The tack should be fastened to the bow. The sheets are light weight line, turned by small blocks on the transom corners and back to my hand or looped around the winch first. I hope this helps. I can send you a picture of this sometime if necessary.
Ok........lemme see..........I love the boomkicker as it eliminates the topping lift. When I drop the main I never have to worry about the boom falling in my lap. Yes I cleat my vang at the top because it's closer to me than the mast base. Otherwise I don't think it makes a difference. Yes I have a dangling line but I've got lots of dangling lines near the front of my boom. They are color coded. And to Father Mark. I think you had an assymetrical (spp.?) spinnaker like me. The tack should be fastened to the bow. The sheets are light weight line, turned by small blocks on the transom corners and back to my hand or looped around the winch first. I hope this helps. I can send you a picture of this sometime if necessary.
Hey Mike
I think I have a z-spar mast with no exits at the bottom. As for my spinnaker, I purchased it and had all the blocks installed from the broker I purchased it from. They were very nice. They placed a block on the front of the bow and that is what I run the tack of the sail thru back accross the cabin top. UK sail in detroit worked with them and said this would be the best setup for the boat. The Guy from UK sail met me at the boat in detroit for it's first sail with Spinnaker. I learned to work both the tack line and the sheet to change sail shape. Sometimes I fly the tack of the sail away from the boat, sometimes close. Don't know if it was right, but I have just been playing with it and watching my speed with the gps to see which is faster. Not sure which is faster, season ended too soon. Looking forward to starting again when the ice in the harbour is gone. Still got 8-10 inches of ice to melt in little bay de noc. Thanks again for everyones help. Father Mark
I think I have a z-spar mast with no exits at the bottom. As for my spinnaker, I purchased it and had all the blocks installed from the broker I purchased it from. They were very nice. They placed a block on the front of the bow and that is what I run the tack of the sail thru back accross the cabin top. UK sail in detroit worked with them and said this would be the best setup for the boat. The Guy from UK sail met me at the boat in detroit for it's first sail with Spinnaker. I learned to work both the tack line and the sheet to change sail shape. Sometimes I fly the tack of the sail away from the boat, sometimes close. Don't know if it was right, but I have just been playing with it and watching my speed with the gps to see which is faster. Not sure which is faster, season ended too soon. Looking forward to starting again when the ice in the harbour is gone. Still got 8-10 inches of ice to melt in little bay de noc. Thanks again for everyones help. Father Mark
My way
On my 23 I did not use a deck organizer. I instead used the Harken Blocks called foot blocks (I think) they are blocks with holes to mount them to a surface at the top of the block and the bottom. I used these becasue of not wanting to stack the deck org. on a block of wood that would become a toe kicker. With my set up you can stager the blocks on the deck and have them very close and not need to use those plastic line thingamabob things. This worked very well and cost less. Cliff
On my 23 I did not use a deck organizer. I instead used the Harken Blocks called foot blocks (I think) they are blocks with holes to mount them to a surface at the top of the block and the bottom. I used these becasue of not wanting to stack the deck org. on a block of wood that would become a toe kicker. With my set up you can stager the blocks on the deck and have them very close and not need to use those plastic line thingamabob things. This worked very well and cost less. Cliff
boom-kicker vs rigid vang?
OK, now that I've finally seen a boomkicker, does a rigid vang replace both a boomkicker (or topping lift) and a boom vang? IE can a rigid vang both hold up the boom and pull it down? If this is correct, will a rigid vang, when hardened to pull the boom down, magically also stop the boom from falling if the main is dropped? If not, would you consider it an advantage having the boomkicker and vang installed instead of a rigid vang? ...RickM...
OK, now that I've finally seen a boomkicker, does a rigid vang replace both a boomkicker (or topping lift) and a boom vang? IE can a rigid vang both hold up the boom and pull it down? If this is correct, will a rigid vang, when hardened to pull the boom down, magically also stop the boom from falling if the main is dropped? If not, would you consider it an advantage having the boomkicker and vang installed instead of a rigid vang? ...RickM...
to father and rick
Rick, to my knowledge a rigid vang would replace both boomkicker and vang and do the same job..........albeit much more expensive. Father, I'd agree you have the Z spar cause that came with the '87, it's unpainted aluminum. Much lighter than the Kenyon for stepping I might add. The cast mast base should have some vertical "fins" with holes in them. You can get the pins and sheaves from US Spars in florida (www.usspars.com) to fit out the base to run the lines through. Now for that spinnaker. Mine came new from UK Sailmakers and they put about 6' of tack line on it so that it was somewhat adjustable up and down on the bow but I don't think it was ever intended for a control line to lead all the way to the cockpit. Only running rigging would be the sheets. Trust me........you've got enough to worry about holding the sheet and tiller without also holding onto the tack line. I can get you a picture of my mast base this weekend. Oh by the way.........the rods that hold up my cabin hatch are just fiberglass tent poles that I cut to size and screwed in place.
Rick, to my knowledge a rigid vang would replace both boomkicker and vang and do the same job..........albeit much more expensive. Father, I'd agree you have the Z spar cause that came with the '87, it's unpainted aluminum. Much lighter than the Kenyon for stepping I might add. The cast mast base should have some vertical "fins" with holes in them. You can get the pins and sheaves from US Spars in florida (www.usspars.com) to fit out the base to run the lines through. Now for that spinnaker. Mine came new from UK Sailmakers and they put about 6' of tack line on it so that it was somewhat adjustable up and down on the bow but I don't think it was ever intended for a control line to lead all the way to the cockpit. Only running rigging would be the sheets. Trust me........you've got enough to worry about holding the sheet and tiller without also holding onto the tack line. I can get you a picture of my mast base this weekend. Oh by the way.........the rods that hold up my cabin hatch are just fiberglass tent poles that I cut to size and screwed in place.
mast base
The mast base on my h23 is aluminum, not cast. I dont know if it is original, but I am sure it is aluminum, magnet won't stick. and I can bend it pretty easily. I will post a picture in the next few days. I just raised the mast in the driveway to work on the boat without cables in my way, broke off one of the "t-screws" on the bottom of the turnbuckle used to tighten the tension on the mast. What do you call those things and where do you buy these little guys? Father Mark
The mast base on my h23 is aluminum, not cast. I dont know if it is original, but I am sure it is aluminum, magnet won't stick. and I can bend it pretty easily. I will post a picture in the next few days. I just raised the mast in the driveway to work on the boat without cables in my way, broke off one of the "t-screws" on the bottom of the turnbuckle used to tighten the tension on the mast. What do you call those things and where do you buy these little guys? Father Mark
mast base pic
Here's a picture of the mast base on my Z Spar with fins, pins and sheaves. I hope this helps. Notice all that dark staining? Does anyone know how to prevent the aluminum from bleeding that mess?
Here's a picture of the mast base on my Z Spar with fins, pins and sheaves. I hope this helps. Notice all that dark staining? Does anyone know how to prevent the aluminum from bleeding that mess?
Attachments
Kenyon mast...
I have a Kenyon mast on my 1986 H23. Jib halyard exits high and to port. the main halyard isn't quite as high but to starboard. I'd like to relocate the main halyard winch to the cabin top on starboard and route the halyard through a block/deck organizer/clutch on starboard. I don't want to screw around with pulling the jib halyard through the mast to starboard. Any of you run it through a block/organizer/clutch on the port side? Advice and a picture or two would be appreciated before I start drilling holes in the cabin top! Steve
I have a Kenyon mast on my 1986 H23. Jib halyard exits high and to port. the main halyard isn't quite as high but to starboard. I'd like to relocate the main halyard winch to the cabin top on starboard and route the halyard through a block/deck organizer/clutch on starboard. I don't want to screw around with pulling the jib halyard through the mast to starboard. Any of you run it through a block/organizer/clutch on the port side? Advice and a picture or two would be appreciated before I start drilling holes in the cabin top! Steve
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