Running a Diesel Heater Underway

[Gary Wyngarden]

We're over in Sidney, B.C. near Victoria where we spent a delightful weekend. We're headed home later this AM which is a 20 mile trip almost due East. Temps are forecast for the upper 30's to low 40's and winds 5-15 knot southerlies.I'm thinking it would be nice to run the Espar heater underway to give us a warm off watch place to get in out of the cold. We ran it under power in calm winds on the way over here without a problem. And the manual says nothing about not running the heater underway.But I'm a little concerned about the effect of heeling on the fuel supply to the heater if we get to sail on the way home.Any thoughts on this?Thanks for your help.Gary WyngardenS/V Wanderlust h37.5

 

[Claude L.-Auger]

Quote from Derek Hatfield

Gary, I got curious and checked the Espar site and did not see anything for or against using when sailing. I did see this quote from Derek Hatfield on the site:"As I sailed through the Southern Ocean on Spirit of Canada during the Around Alone 2002, it was so cold that it snowed on a regular basis. The most important piece of equipment on board was the Espar heater. It worked flawlessly and kept me warm, dry and motivated."I would guess that he was sailing since he was racing. Have a safe trip back

 

[Gary Wyngarden]

Merci, Claude!

nmGary WyngardenSV Wanderlust h37.5

 

[Lyle]

heater use underway

I have used my diesel heater underway successfully with no problems with the fuel supply - you do have to watch the combustion air intake and exhaust outlet though. Depending on where the through hull is mounted and the prevailing sea conditions it is possible to ingest sea water or salt spray into the heater which will certainly shorten it's lifespan.

 

[Peter Milne]

Heater Use

Gary,I often run our Webasto heater when under sail in snotty weather. The best seat in the house is under the dodger at the top of the companionway.However, for the reasons expressed by Lyle, if we are heeling alot on a port tack, I turn it off.Have a good trip! (It snowed in Calgary last night)PeterS/V Blue Heron

 

[John Nantz]

Pickup tube and Exhaust Location

There are two things I can think of that could be a problem: Pickup tube height and location, and the exhaust location.Heater pickup tubes are supposed to be installed so their intake is higher than the intake for the engine fuel supply, so... if the fuel tank level is low it is possible when heeling for the pickup to suck air which can cause a problem. Besides the heater cutting out until it primes itself, the atomizer can overheat from too much current trying to ignite fuel that isn't there.Exhaust outlet location - it may be possible for docklines or fenders hanging off the rail to be in the way of the exhaust which could melt them. I had this problem once with a dockline that was hanging down too far. Naturally is was my longest one!After being at the dock the batteries are probably topped off so running the fan on the heater shouldn't be a problem. And if you're under power (we only have about 1kt wind here right now) that wouldn't be a problem either. Running both the heater and engine will cause the fuel level to drop down faster.Otherwise, besides what others have mentioned, that's all I can think of. I envy you being out on the boat - what a nice weekend. We've had the sails off now for two months! My S.O. doesn't like the cold.

 

[John Nantz]

Pickup tube location

Forgot to mention about pickup tube location. If it's not in the center of the tank the pickup could be sucking air on one tack while it is immersed in fuel on the other tack.

 

[Franklin]

Diesel Vrs LP Gas

what are the advatages of using Diesel over just running a LP gas oven/stove to warm the cabin? I know a disadvantage is reducing fuel needed to charge batteries (only an issue when cruising) and not as good on the environment.So what are the advantages?

 

[Fred Ficarra]

Clean-Dry Heat

Running a LP stove inside the cabin for heat will dampen the interior. LP fuel vented into the cabin releases the byproduct of its' combustion, WATER, directly into the cabin. Maybe it's not a problem where it's warm, like Texas, but then you wouldn't be heating anyway. No combustion byproduct should ever be released into the interior of the boat except that needed for cooking. Even then ventilation is needed. Diesel furnaces vent outside. The inside stays dry and is toasty warm.

 

[Don12364]

You Will Die

Fred is right Franklin. If you run a LP stove for any length of time below decks UNLESS ADEQUATELY VENTILATED. Never go to bed with one operating.Sorry to shout.Diesel heaters do not pump their products of combustion into the boat but cooking stoves do. This means that, in addition to the water you also get carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide. The latter is invisible and has no smell. It prevents the body absorbing oxygen and I understand a pleasant death results soon after.Please always ventilate adequately. This means the cabin is not as snug as with a proper diesel heater.

 

[Franklin]

next option?

I guess I'm just not so fond of the idea of a diesel heater...so what's the next best option while underway or at anchor. How about lots of candles?At night it does get a bit chilli here...daytime usually isn't a big deal.

 

[John Nantz]

re: Fondness for Diesel Heater

I'm with you Franklin - can't say that I've got a fondness for a diesel heater either, BUT... away from the dock there is basically no realistic alternative up in the Northwest. The downsides are stationwagon effect (exhaust is sucked into the cabin). The boat can be moving or at anchor. Breathing diesel exhauset is unhealthy. Another concern is movement of stuff in the heater locker - either the heater components (something could come loose) or something stored there could somehow mate up with some area that is hot (exposed by movement of insulation, cover plate, or what have you. "Stuff" happens. I always pay special attention to the heater area and it's components, especially the exhaust duct.On our trip to Alaska http://www.sailboatowners.com/forums/farchpix.tpl?xfno=122&rid=2003135222120.7&reply=T&db=2003&cart=1133140606151396 we used the heater quite a bit while underway and nearly all the time while at anchor and this was in the "summer". The picture in Tracy Arm was from the end of July - note the ski clothing, and we were still cold.Another problem with cruising without dry heat in SE Alaska is mold and mildew. If there are any areas that don't get proper ventillation that's what you get - the green stuff. A forced air heater not only keeps the cabin nice and warm but combats the mold and mildew. It's also very handy for drying things like gloves, dish towles, wet jackets, etc.The non-forced air diesel heaters just add to the moisture problem inside the cabin so for Alaska and the Northwest they're a negative because they promote moisture inside the cabin. This is not only my opinion but also that of a couple of the major retailers of heaters here that sell both forced air and non-forced air like Ardic (Scan Marine) and Espar (Boat Electric).Wish there was a viable alternative but realistically there isn't. Wood stoves on sailboats have all but disappeared.Guess Gary is in training for his Alaska trip! This was a fairly good weekend for it except it didn't rain enough.

 

[Calif. Ted]

Franklin, I just ordered one of those "Buddy"

propane heaters to try this winter while on the hook. Winter conditions here probably similar to yours, lows in the low 50's (maybe high 40's) in the AM. Just need something to take the chill off till coffee's ready. They are $75 at amazon for the small one, I'll let you know how it works.

 

[Franklin]

Difference?

What's the difference between a propane stove and a portable propane heater?

 

[Moody Buccaneer]

Forced air propane?

I've been looking at forced air propane fueled heaters.My old boat has a (gasp) gasoline engine and a propane stove.Espar used to make a gasoline forced air heater, but it is not available in North America. I'm told that a gasoline fired heater would make the boat uninsurable.Diesel would be fine, but I already have two fuel systems. I don't really want to add a third.I know propane fired bulkhead heaters are available, but forced air is better.Can anyone think of a reason NOT to try a propane fired forced air heater?

 

[Franklin]

propane fired bulkhead heaters

Do they force the exhaust outside of the boat?

 

[Terry Cox]

Franklin, most of the furnace heaters...

that I've seen vent the combusted exhaust to the outside. Terry

 

[DaveM10278]

The dif between an internal and external heater

Hi Franklin, The difference between a heater that is made to vent inside a structure or stove and externally vented heater would be some type of Oxygen sensor that would shut off the flame before depleting the Oxygen in a room (this leads to that Carbon Monoxide and death thing mentioned before). My parents have been using a propane fireplace that is not vented outside for years without ill effect. It does have an Oxygen sensor mentioned above. Something to ponder upon.Dave

 

[Franklin]

and if it fails

Not so sure I want to put my life in the hands of a little sensor.Do candles put off harmful gasses too?

 

[Gary Wyngarden]

Outcome

The Canadian forecast was for light to moderate easterlies. The American forecast was for 5-15 knot southerlies. So of course the wind was blowing from the west at 6-7 knots, right on our stern.We broad reached and jibed at 3.5 to 4 knots, hardly heeled at all and the heater worked just fine.Temps were cold but the sun made it warm enough that we finally shut the heater off to get rid of the noise.Thanks to all for your input.Gary WyngardenS/V Wanderlust h37.5