Hi, I need some help locating a part for my recently purchased 1980 Hunter 33'. I discovered a severely corroded rudder shaft packing nut assembly...corroded so badly that the "nut" portion of the top piece cracked off of the "sleeve" portion. My bilge pump is keeping up with the leak for now...but obviously this needs immediate attention. Can anyone suggest where to find a replacement part? Thanks for your speediest response. Matt Gardner. Trilogy. '80 Hunter 33' Benicia, CA.
Rudder shaft packing nut replacement
- Thread starter Trilogy23814
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Mark, that sounds very urgent
I would go ahead and have her pulled out. That could turn into alot of water coming in and if you are not there to monitor it, it might get ahead of your pump. Not sure about replacement part, but I would call Hunter Marine. Good luck.
I would go ahead and have her pulled out. That could turn into alot of water coming in and if you are not there to monitor it, it might get ahead of your pump. Not sure about replacement part, but I would call Hunter Marine. Good luck.
H-33 leaking rudder shaft seal
Hi Matt I also have had the same problem on my H-33 1980. My compression nut was not so badly corroded as yours and I was able to make a repair with epoxy and a hi-density filler which has held up okay so far. But more importantly for your situation I discovered that the top of the rudder support pipe -- (where this nut attaches) -- is just at or above the water line. If you add a bit of weight to the bow, you will find that the stern rises enough that you can remove the nut and no water enters the boat. In fact it was possible to change the rudder with the boat in the water at my dock. The easiest way to add weight at the bow is to insert a rubber plug in the anchor locker drain, fill the cavity with enough water to get the bow down a bit. Take care not to fill to the top or the water will overtop the bulkhead to the V-berth and wet your bed. Hope this is helpful. Henry
Hi Matt I also have had the same problem on my H-33 1980. My compression nut was not so badly corroded as yours and I was able to make a repair with epoxy and a hi-density filler which has held up okay so far. But more importantly for your situation I discovered that the top of the rudder support pipe -- (where this nut attaches) -- is just at or above the water line. If you add a bit of weight to the bow, you will find that the stern rises enough that you can remove the nut and no water enters the boat. In fact it was possible to change the rudder with the boat in the water at my dock. The easiest way to add weight at the bow is to insert a rubber plug in the anchor locker drain, fill the cavity with enough water to get the bow down a bit. Take care not to fill to the top or the water will overtop the bulkhead to the V-berth and wet your bed. Hope this is helpful. Henry
update and thanks so far
Thanks Henry and "Freebird" Owner. I've contacted Hunter-Marine (heh...after mistakenly sending an email to hunter.com / Hunter Engineering; maker of the worlds leading automotive test equipment..lol) but no word back from them yet this morning. Last night I put a bead of 5200 sealant around the break...it has reduced the flow so that the bilge pump took 6 hours instead of 2.5 hours to turn on...a good improvement...and today I am purchasing a new/spare bilge pump. I'll top off my water tank and reduce and hopefully cut off the flow for now...but without a part to replace it with I don't think ill flood my anchor well just yet or haul it out. But I might store all my tools up there in the mean time. Excellent suggestion. And if anyone does have a lead on a suitable maker of a replacement packing nut...I'll be very gratefull. Thanks, Matt.
Thanks Henry and "Freebird" Owner. I've contacted Hunter-Marine (heh...after mistakenly sending an email to hunter.com / Hunter Engineering; maker of the worlds leading automotive test equipment..lol) but no word back from them yet this morning. Last night I put a bead of 5200 sealant around the break...it has reduced the flow so that the bilge pump took 6 hours instead of 2.5 hours to turn on...a good improvement...and today I am purchasing a new/spare bilge pump. I'll top off my water tank and reduce and hopefully cut off the flow for now...but without a part to replace it with I don't think ill flood my anchor well just yet or haul it out. But I might store all my tools up there in the mean time. Excellent suggestion. And if anyone does have a lead on a suitable maker of a replacement packing nut...I'll be very gratefull. Thanks, Matt.
Sam Lust posted some years ago his experience with
this same problem. As I remember, Sam had a new nut machined. If you will contact him, he is listed as a H33 owner, he may be able to help you. you might also try searching the archives for Sam Lust and perhaps "rudder" or "rudder packing" The H33 had a pretty long run and the later years seem to have this problem.
this same problem. As I remember, Sam had a new nut machined. If you will contact him, he is listed as a H33 owner, he may be able to help you. you might also try searching the archives for Sam Lust and perhaps "rudder" or "rudder packing" The H33 had a pretty long run and the later years seem to have this problem.
More rusty nuts - The source
My listing in the Owners Directory is undoubtedly out of date with a dead address. I have to update that real soon! I can no longer find the reciept on which I had specifics like the price and the name of my contact there but after a session of head banging I remembered that I had to have the piece machined from bar stock by Buck Algonquin in Delaware. They made much of the cast pieces on many of the loder boat. They have an internet site. As far as calling Hunter, I have no idea why people invite yopu to waste your time on that endeavor. I'm sure you have still had no return e-mail. If you ever do the best you'll learn is that they destroyed the drawings for thise boats years ago. Hunter appears to believe in only servicing current boats, if that. If they at least had the print the piece could be made up very simply. As it is you'll have to send in the remains of your nut for them to duplicate. The piece got back was not exact but it is functional and acceptable. Hope you have lots of fun sliding in and changing out the nut!
My listing in the Owners Directory is undoubtedly out of date with a dead address. I have to update that real soon! I can no longer find the reciept on which I had specifics like the price and the name of my contact there but after a session of head banging I remembered that I had to have the piece machined from bar stock by Buck Algonquin in Delaware. They made much of the cast pieces on many of the loder boat. They have an internet site. As far as calling Hunter, I have no idea why people invite yopu to waste your time on that endeavor. I'm sure you have still had no return e-mail. If you ever do the best you'll learn is that they destroyed the drawings for thise boats years ago. Hunter appears to believe in only servicing current boats, if that. If they at least had the print the piece could be made up very simply. As it is you'll have to send in the remains of your nut for them to duplicate. The piece got back was not exact but it is functional and acceptable. Hope you have lots of fun sliding in and changing out the nut!
packing gland source
Seems like you might want to replace the whole thing including the hose and clamps. I would have it hauled, but that is me, I don't like water coming in my boat. Not sure about the size, but here is one that might work. Good luck.
Seems like you might want to replace the whole thing including the hose and clamps. I would have it hauled, but that is me, I don't like water coming in my boat. Not sure about the size, but here is one that might work. Good luck.
Contact hunter.
Matt: Hunter usually has a source for a lot of the old parts. One of our harbor mates called them for a new strut (Hunter Cherubini 37 Cutter), and they had the source close at hand. The key to sucess is actually speaking with someone. I usually have some good luck with e-mails but it depends on their work load.
Matt: Hunter usually has a source for a lot of the old parts. One of our harbor mates called them for a new strut (Hunter Cherubini 37 Cutter), and they had the source close at hand. The key to sucess is actually speaking with someone. I usually have some good luck with e-mails but it depends on their work load.
Sorry guys, but;
I reiterate: Hunter burned the old prints. I was told this when I called seeking informatiion on what should have been a VERY simple replacement part. (I don't like trying to communicate about parts and technical problems via e-mail.)I could not simply order it because the "source" was undoubtedly a small machine shop long out of business. Had Hunter not destroyed the prints having one made wouild have been a piece of cake with the print. As for the strut? Simple. The name DAHMER is cast right into it with the casting number: H-33, which might even have been used on the 37. A look-up in a marine phone directory distributed in this region of the country turned up Dahmer Marine in Keyport New Jersey. A quick drive and $250 and I had a new strut with cutless installed. Sorry guys but while I like my 33, it irks me no end that Hunter did us such an enormous disservice by burning the prints.
I reiterate: Hunter burned the old prints. I was told this when I called seeking informatiion on what should have been a VERY simple replacement part. (I don't like trying to communicate about parts and technical problems via e-mail.)I could not simply order it because the "source" was undoubtedly a small machine shop long out of business. Had Hunter not destroyed the prints having one made wouild have been a piece of cake with the print. As for the strut? Simple. The name DAHMER is cast right into it with the casting number: H-33, which might even have been used on the 37. A look-up in a marine phone directory distributed in this region of the country turned up Dahmer Marine in Keyport New Jersey. A quick drive and $250 and I had a new strut with cutless installed. Sorry guys but while I like my 33, it irks me no end that Hunter did us such an enormous disservice by burning the prints.
Update 2
I have actually gotten in contact with customer service at Hunter in Fl., but the rep did not sound familiar with the part at all. He asked me to send a photo of the part...and said there were people at the factory that have been around since my boat was built and intends to show it around to them and see if anyone has any suggestions. I am also attempting contacting the Buck Algonquin folks to see if they have a record of the part they made for Sam Lust, and to see if they can make one for me. If necc. I will make a half cast of the rudder post to make a mold of the shaft diameter and thread count using 5200 sealant. My first attempt at staunching the flow around the broken nut with 5200 did not succeed, but the sealant pealed off and made a nice cast of the nut...so I figure the same technique will make a cast of the shaft should the Buck A. folks need a reference to manufacture a new one. I am using an underwater glue this time to try to staunch flow through the break and attempt to hold the two pieces together. If that seems to hold, I plan to soak a piece of rope in toilet bowl gasket wax (nice soft stuff) and wrap a few spirals of it around the rudder shaft at the top of the post and loosly snug the nut down onto it and hopefully seal it up till I can get a new "Spud" (Buck Algonquin site calls the packing nut a Spud) to do the actual repair. Cross fingers for me folks...I'll let you know if my MacGyvering works.
I have actually gotten in contact with customer service at Hunter in Fl., but the rep did not sound familiar with the part at all. He asked me to send a photo of the part...and said there were people at the factory that have been around since my boat was built and intends to show it around to them and see if anyone has any suggestions. I am also attempting contacting the Buck Algonquin folks to see if they have a record of the part they made for Sam Lust, and to see if they can make one for me. If necc. I will make a half cast of the rudder post to make a mold of the shaft diameter and thread count using 5200 sealant. My first attempt at staunching the flow around the broken nut with 5200 did not succeed, but the sealant pealed off and made a nice cast of the nut...so I figure the same technique will make a cast of the shaft should the Buck A. folks need a reference to manufacture a new one. I am using an underwater glue this time to try to staunch flow through the break and attempt to hold the two pieces together. If that seems to hold, I plan to soak a piece of rope in toilet bowl gasket wax (nice soft stuff) and wrap a few spirals of it around the rudder shaft at the top of the post and loosly snug the nut down onto it and hopefully seal it up till I can get a new "Spud" (Buck Algonquin site calls the packing nut a Spud) to do the actual repair. Cross fingers for me folks...I'll let you know if my MacGyvering works.
Had one made in 2000, cost $300
I had the same problem with my 1980 H33. Nut was corroded and had holes in it. I took it to a good local machine shop and they made the part for me out of stainless. Cost about $300, as I remember, which I thought was high, but the alternative was to replace the whole assembly, which would have cost much more and been a lot of trouble...any machine shop can measure and copy something as simple as that nut...it worked fine until lost the boat last year in Katrina....Make sure they use some variety of stainless or naval bronze.
I had the same problem with my 1980 H33. Nut was corroded and had holes in it. I took it to a good local machine shop and they made the part for me out of stainless. Cost about $300, as I remember, which I thought was high, but the alternative was to replace the whole assembly, which would have cost much more and been a lot of trouble...any machine shop can measure and copy something as simple as that nut...it worked fine until lost the boat last year in Katrina....Make sure they use some variety of stainless or naval bronze.
Nuts
As I recall, mine cost no more than $65.00 from Buck Algonquin, but it was several years ago.
As I recall, mine cost no more than $65.00 from Buck Algonquin, but it was several years ago.
No reply from Buck Alg.
I've been trying to contact the Buck Algonquin folks. Now that I heard your nut only cost 65.00 I'd really like to get hold of them. The only contact info I could find on their website is a sales email intended for distributors interested in carrying their products. 2 emails to them with zero replies thus far. You wouldn't happen to have a Ph# for the Buck A. company would you Sam? I have reduced inflow to the point that the pumps only come on 2X a day now. If I could get a replacement nut for under 100.00 bucks, I'd be open to replacing just the nut for now and consider it a temp fix untill I can afford replacing the entire rudder post assembly...simply because I am worried the post might be as corroded in spots as badly as the nut (But I can't see inside to confirm that at this point). And since my goal is to cruise to Baja in the winters, hopefully in a year or two, worrying about that post would not be a good thing...having it fail would be worse. My measurement of the rudder shaft puts it at 1 3/8" diameter...does that seem correct based on other's experiences? I used my adj. packing nut wrench and a ruler in lieu of a micrometer.
I've been trying to contact the Buck Algonquin folks. Now that I heard your nut only cost 65.00 I'd really like to get hold of them. The only contact info I could find on their website is a sales email intended for distributors interested in carrying their products. 2 emails to them with zero replies thus far. You wouldn't happen to have a Ph# for the Buck A. company would you Sam? I have reduced inflow to the point that the pumps only come on 2X a day now. If I could get a replacement nut for under 100.00 bucks, I'd be open to replacing just the nut for now and consider it a temp fix untill I can afford replacing the entire rudder post assembly...simply because I am worried the post might be as corroded in spots as badly as the nut (But I can't see inside to confirm that at this point). And since my goal is to cruise to Baja in the winters, hopefully in a year or two, worrying about that post would not be a good thing...having it fail would be worse. My measurement of the rudder shaft puts it at 1 3/8" diameter...does that seem correct based on other's experiences? I used my adj. packing nut wrench and a ruler in lieu of a micrometer.
Move wt. to the bow
I have been watching this thread with interest. I have a 1980 33' with a new rudder shaft and stuffing box due to a bad pull off a few years ago. Maybe you have tried this but per design the rudder shaft pipe's end should be above the water line. I would move all stored items to the front and thereby tilt the boat down in the bow and up in the stern. Secondly, as a stop gap a good hardware/plumbing store may have a nut (iron or steel) to fit the pipe and stop the leak until you get a SS one made. It's not fun working in the close space, but there is no other choice even when the boat is on the hard.
I have been watching this thread with interest. I have a 1980 33' with a new rudder shaft and stuffing box due to a bad pull off a few years ago. Maybe you have tried this but per design the rudder shaft pipe's end should be above the water line. I would move all stored items to the front and thereby tilt the boat down in the bow and up in the stern. Secondly, as a stop gap a good hardware/plumbing store may have a nut (iron or steel) to fit the pipe and stop the leak until you get a SS one made. It's not fun working in the close space, but there is no other choice even when the boat is on the hard.
Had the very same problem this Spring with my
82-33H when I found the source of taking on water under sail was a corroded shaft at the threaded end; prior owner had attempted to tighten the packing nut to stop leak, and stripped the threads on the nut. Since the shaft itself was shot, I had to have it replaced when I hauled for a bottom job. Embree Marine in St Petersburg did the work and had to power chisel the old rudder shaft from its position, where it was imbedded in fiberglas in the stern at the time the boat was built. Not much room to work, and they had to remove the hot water heater and work from inside the stern section of the boat. I guess they picked their smallest yardman! They had to buy a new pipe shaft from a supplier of stainless pipes, then have it machined with the correct thread size. Then they had to replace, realign and imbed the shaft in fiberglas. Then of course, they added a new packing nut to fit the new shaft. I'll send a pic tonite of the new shaft when I get home to my other computer along with some prices if I can find where I "saved" my receipt. Jeff
82-33H when I found the source of taking on water under sail was a corroded shaft at the threaded end; prior owner had attempted to tighten the packing nut to stop leak, and stripped the threads on the nut. Since the shaft itself was shot, I had to have it replaced when I hauled for a bottom job. Embree Marine in St Petersburg did the work and had to power chisel the old rudder shaft from its position, where it was imbedded in fiberglas in the stern at the time the boat was built. Not much room to work, and they had to remove the hot water heater and work from inside the stern section of the boat. I guess they picked their smallest yardman! They had to buy a new pipe shaft from a supplier of stainless pipes, then have it machined with the correct thread size. Then they had to replace, realign and imbed the shaft in fiberglas. Then of course, they added a new packing nut to fit the new shaft. I'll send a pic tonite of the new shaft when I get home to my other computer along with some prices if I can find where I "saved" my receipt. Jeff
Got Lucky
I echecked through my old peperwork and found my note sheet from my nut escapade. Buck Algonquin is very definitely still there and working. The phone number is - 302-659-6900 The address is - 370 No. Main Street, Smyrna, Delaware 19977 I called the number and spoke with the person I dealt with back when I found mine to be bad. His name is Lee.I can't remember what year this occurred so he was not able to locate a previous invoice or drawing, although I seriously doubt there was a drawing. The machinist probably just altered his set-up slightly amd made up the new nut based on the sample I sent them. This is the reason they were able to make up the part for so little compaers to going to a local machine shop. Buck Algonquin has machinery set up for and dedicated to producing parts like this all day long. Bear in mind I replaced mind 6 or 7 years ago so you will undoubtedly pay more than that due to increases on the cost of steel and labor over the years. You will need to remove the nut and jam nut to send to Buck Alqonquin to duplicate. Your post indicates you are in California. I'm going to say yoy need to suck it up and haul the boat while this work is under way. My opinion is that this job is best accomplished on the hard. I'm sure you can find lots of projects on the bottom while the boat is out, like fairing the keel or some such. The steering quadrant and top support clamp must come off, then the rudder must drop a bit to allow the packing and jam nuts to be pulled out. If you let the rudder fall it will stop at the ground before it gets into trouble. As for the rudder tube; mine showed no corrosion whatsoever. Only the nut corroded because apparently it was considerably less noble than the tube. I consider the installation of the new nut, jam nut and packing as permanent.
I echecked through my old peperwork and found my note sheet from my nut escapade. Buck Algonquin is very definitely still there and working. The phone number is - 302-659-6900 The address is - 370 No. Main Street, Smyrna, Delaware 19977 I called the number and spoke with the person I dealt with back when I found mine to be bad. His name is Lee.I can't remember what year this occurred so he was not able to locate a previous invoice or drawing, although I seriously doubt there was a drawing. The machinist probably just altered his set-up slightly amd made up the new nut based on the sample I sent them. This is the reason they were able to make up the part for so little compaers to going to a local machine shop. Buck Algonquin has machinery set up for and dedicated to producing parts like this all day long. Bear in mind I replaced mind 6 or 7 years ago so you will undoubtedly pay more than that due to increases on the cost of steel and labor over the years. You will need to remove the nut and jam nut to send to Buck Alqonquin to duplicate. Your post indicates you are in California. I'm going to say yoy need to suck it up and haul the boat while this work is under way. My opinion is that this job is best accomplished on the hard. I'm sure you can find lots of projects on the bottom while the boat is out, like fairing the keel or some such. The steering quadrant and top support clamp must come off, then the rudder must drop a bit to allow the packing and jam nuts to be pulled out. If you let the rudder fall it will stop at the ground before it gets into trouble. As for the rudder tube; mine showed no corrosion whatsoever. Only the nut corroded because apparently it was considerably less noble than the tube. I consider the installation of the new nut, jam nut and packing as permanent.
Stuffing box
I am not sure about your boat, But Dahmer Marine made a lot of casting for Hunter in the late 70's. I recently have had e-mail contact with them regarding my stuffing box (its notbroken but I fix thing I think are going to break) and it appears they still make the same box. The first one lasted for 30 year, I would buy another.
I am not sure about your boat, But Dahmer Marine made a lot of casting for Hunter in the late 70's. I recently have had e-mail contact with them regarding my stuffing box (its notbroken but I fix thing I think are going to break) and it appears they still make the same box. The first one lasted for 30 year, I would buy another.
Common problem
Yikes!!! Looks like all 33_77-83 owners (who haven't changed these yet) need to stick their heads down below their cockpits and check their nuts.
But seriously...maybe we can get a group rate on a bulk order. I'm trying the Dahmer Marine folks...waiting on a call back from someone "more experienced" at the company. Fellow I spoke to on the phone wasn't to sure what a rudder port was...*sigh*.
Yikes!!! Looks like all 33_77-83 owners (who haven't changed these yet) need to stick their heads down below their cockpits and check their nuts.
But seriously...maybe we can get a group rate on a bulk order. I'm trying the Dahmer Marine folks...waiting on a call back from someone "more experienced" at the company. Fellow I spoke to on the phone wasn't to sure what a rudder port was...*sigh*.- Status