Rudder Repair h27 1982, Pic's of a repair in progress.

Mar 10, 2014
41
hunter27 hunter27 nassau
This is more of a post for those interested in watching a repair of a rudder (while on the boat)

We sanded all the paint to gel coat, drilled some holes to test for water, which we found. some clear water and slightly yellowish brown drainage.

I drilled some 4 in holes on both sides to locate the area of damage. (which you can see we drilled before stripping the rudder paint.

Upon cutting it out we found the water was from water coming down the emergency tiller which is partially exposed on the deck. So the water drained down and started saturating the foam underneath the rudder post.
I was lucky to catch when we did. As it was localized and recent damage.

I chiseling out the dirty foam till we were down to the very hard bright white foam and any foam that was still wet. Even though the 4" holes were drilled few weeks ago there was still water holding in the foam.

So now were into the very hard dry white foam.

So As we progress from week to week I wanted to show our progress.

So at the moment we have to let it sit a week in the 90 degree heat to dry out to be sure all is dry.

We have left a 5000 cfm industrial fan running on it 24 hours a day. Sunday the 1 July we will start foaming the rudder. Will post as we progress.
hunter 073.jpg
hunter 074.jpg
003.jpg

Just a Fyi for all diy out there...

When chiseling out the foam from the cut out he removed some good hard foam just past the edges of the cut out so that when re foaming some of the new foam will be past the cut out area for strength.

I am using 2 part polyurethane expanding foam 16 lbs.

update on rudder repair (still standing on boat) Monday June 2, 5014

So you will see the pictures of the process we took to re-foam the rudder opening we made in order to check for any further damage.

I made templates of the opening that fit into the cut...we used 1/4 inch laminate plywood. (cheap stuff)

004.jpg011.jpg

After making the templates of the exact cutout I screwed them to another sheet of laminate that we would affix and screw to the rudder around the hole.

005.jpg

Pictures show the templates and the graphite Teflon spray (the Black) that would make it a bit easier to remove the template forms from the rudder.

013.jpg

Even though we sprayed this no stick Teflon and graphite it was still a bit of effort to remove the interior template. Not much but a little. I will tell you this 16 lb foam really sticks and become very hard.


We then placed one template and outer skin over the entire of one side. I drilled two holes 1/2 top left and right of the repair area right close to the edge.

017.jpg

Then placed yellow painters masking tape and burnished it to the plywood to hold securely. (this pic is of near the end, I forgot to take one as I did it)

027.jpg

On the others side I screwed the half the template over the hole. This is the side we would start pouring the 16lb foam. Let me say that you do not just want to screw the screws to the fiberglass without drilling the hole a size smaller than the screw you plan to use. (we used 1 1/4 Sheetrock screws)
015.jpg

After filling the first layer of foam you can see in the pictures that came to half way up the rudder repair area. We then placed the second half of the template over the upper portion of the rudder repair.

019.jpg

Let me comment about the reason for the cut out templates for the hole, we did this because after the foam is poured we wanted the foam to be just behind the fiberglass laminate. So that when we were done and started feathering the fiberglass edges for fiber glassing it would be even with the surface of the foam.

After covering the last half of the opening we drilled two holes top left and right just like the other side but a lot larger this time of 1 inch. This is the side we would pour the epoxy through the holes with a funnel which we cut the opening in the funnel end to 3/4 inch.. so allow the foam to flow quickly into the hole, as the foam quickly thickens up and becomes hard to pour. We also angled the 1" hold downward for the funnel to flow easily.we mixed a bit more then what we felt was the square inches left to fill so that there would be overflow. We didn't want it to harden just short of the top.

So total for this 17x 10 inch hole about 3 inch thick we used a full quart of A and B 16lb foam.

So quickly mixing this nasty mixture we poured half into one hole and half in the other hole. We then placed a strip of ply over the holes we just poured through and screwed it down, so that the foam wouldn't flow out this side. One thing I can tell you is that the foam even though its thick it will find any space to flow out of even a pin hole.

025.jpg

We then went to the other side were the yellow masking tape was and waited.. holding my breath that there was enough foam to fill the void as we had just run out of foam with the last pour. we waited and seem forever (about 35 sec) lol. I then saw the tape start to puff out were we drilled the relief holes. (can see in the picture, the foam pushing out the yellow tape)

027.jpg

We waited maybe 10 min and started removing all the screws from the rudder as well as the screws that went through the templates inside.

The outer skin more or less popped easily with a painters tool 15 in 1.
Leaving the templates stuck in the hole and stuck to the foam. (can see in pic)

030.jpg

We used the 15/1 tool to slowly pry out the templates. it came out with a bit of careful work. It did leave behind a layer of laminate in some areas, We decided that the no stick brand we used from Home Depot didn't work well possibly due to the heat generated by the foam.

the remaining ply stuck to the foam came right off when we started sanding with a Dewalt g\Grinder/Polisher with 40 grit 5 hole paper, with little effort. So you can see the final result in the final picture.
This foam is amazingly hard, it makes a solid thump with a good wack with the hammer with no dent.

032.jpg

next weekend I will finish the feathering and start glassing it in.

I did one small mistake on the one side of the rudder.

A few days before we started this repair I took a half sheet of 1/4 and laid on the ground with a couple bricks in the middle. I then put one brick under each side to make it bow ever so slightly.

When i made the template for the right side I did it with the bow opposite the direction of the rudder plane. Thinking that after screwing it down it would conform. I was wrong, it didn't conform and what it did was leave a depression in that area were the ply bent inward and touched the rudder post inside.

034.jpg

And prevented the foam from going around the post. so now I will take

syringe

022.jpg

When I get my order in of foam and fill it in then sand it down and move on.. its a very small space.

Oh well something has to go wrong in order to learn right?

Please forgive me, I am not good at writing and using this editor... Forgive my shortcomings. ugh
 
Last edited:

braol

.
Apr 16, 2014
348
Hunter 27 Rebel 16 Great Lakes Naval Base, IL
HEY, great post! I have a '79 H27 and as the boat is quite old I was growing concerned with the condition of the rudder internals. How was your rudder hardware and the attach points on both rudder and boat? Some pictures of the boat with the rudder out would also be really cool!
Are you going to mask the one side flat and then inject the foam you referenced?

Looking at the pictures it doesn't look as daunting as I had presumed. I was also curious as to how one might assess the condition of the metal structure inside the rudder. I have often wondered about the rudder post-to-internal rudder frame attachment. I'd hate to have the post spin free inside the rudder structure after breaking free due to corrosion.

Again, great post and I look forward to seeing your progress.
 
Mar 10, 2014
41
hunter27 hunter27 nassau
The reason the hole is so big on my rudder is that we started with 4 in diameter holes... and moved out till we saw no more dirty foam or wet. As Chris said we got all the area cleaned out. That not all rudder repairs are doable on the boat... (still hanging)

We are off today to do some foaming. I will post the pictures of the process later on when I return home.

Luckily the steel is is great shape. Other than some discoloration from the brief exposer to water it is great shape. Partially the reason the hole we cut out is so large as we wanted to expose any area around the leak to assess the possibility of damage.
 

braol

.
Apr 16, 2014
348
Hunter 27 Rebel 16 Great Lakes Naval Base, IL
Oh, any fix or repair planned for the area where the rudder attaches to the boat? Just curious.