Rudder removal for an O'day 35

jibes138 · Sep 7, 2009

Rudder

DannyS said:
I have a couple of upcoming projects for this fall, removing the rudder to address some delamination issues and while that's out, I'll replace my cutlass bearing. I've done bearing replacements before but I've never removed a rudder. The archives talk about digging a hole under the rudder which is the method I'll probably have to use since I'm not usually there when the boat comes out of the water. My question is, for those that have done this, how long is the rudder shaft? This will help me determine how deep the hole will need to be. Any issues with removing the rudder? Tips, Tricks? While we're at it, have any of you successfully repaired a delaminated rudder? I figure I've got all winter to screw it up and then repair the mess.
Thanks in advance.

I replaced mine two years ago. The original one delaminated and I repaired it but I was worried water in the foam would corrode the shaft over time. To repair it I drilled dozens of 1/8 dia. holes all over the delaminated area. Then I used a syringe and injected acetone into the holes. I let it dry out then I injected west system epoxy into the holes. I put a sheet of saan wrap over that then used something soft to apply a clamping force, then I took a couple two x 4's and used wood working bar clamps and clamped it all tight and let the epoxy cure. A much better way would be to vacuum bag it so the clamping pressure would be uniform. My repair worked but the foil shape on that side was a little uneven another reason for eventually replacing it. I used the repair for maybe 6 years.
As far as length of shaft you should be able to measure from the top of the rudder to the top of the transom and then subtract the distance to the top of the seat. Or when you pull your stern hatch plastic liners out to get access to the rudder quadrant you can measure the height from inside the boat. I did my repair with the rudder left in the boat, it would have been better to take it out but I chose the fast way versus the best way.

jibes138 · Sep 26, 2009

No it never delaminated again

I painted the rudder white to keep it cooler when hauled. Originally it was blue bottom paint. Also I started storing wet in the winter since the marina didn't freeze much I was right in fishers island sound in an area with multi foot tides. So water pressure keeps a clamping force on it also. But I never saw any further problem. How do you intend to get the original shape of the rudder back if you cut it out and reglass it?

rajhnsn · Oct 4, 2009

I replaced my rudder last year because of the same reason that Dave did. My concern was that the rudder post and flag may have rusted inside. There was evidence of rust seaping out of some cracks that were revealed when the rudder was peeled. The post goes almost to the top of the seat. Our hole was about 30" deep. We tied a line from a stern cleat and ran it to the other side passing it under the rudder to a winch. We took the quadrant apart and took the pressure off the rudder by trimming on the winch. Once the pressure was off, we took the through bolt out and lowered the rudder into the hole until it cleared the bottom of the boat.

I plan to do an autopsy on the old rudder to see if my fears were grounded. I bought the new rudder from Foss Foam in Florida. They shipped it to the marina. I had them make the pendant and post from stainless so it is less likely that the post will lose integrity any time soon. Foss Foam explains why the rudders delaminate on their Web site. Dave is correct in painting his white. The problem here is that white bottom paint is very expensiive. I'm considering making a cover for my rudder this year with insulated foil.

Good luck.
Bob

DeniseO30 · Oct 5, 2009

condensation

I don't know if it's true of most of the Oday larger boats. but I've found that my rudder post gets allot of condesnsation down it from the deck plate I have over it. I'm sure it's enough water to be a problem because every year I drill a hole in the rudder to let it out. gotta love epoxy!

Danny the rudder drop is really not that hard,, just greasy! The quadrant comes apart and only one bolt goes through it's hub and lets the whole rudder post drop! (assuming yours is like mine) had to dig a hole in the ground for it though. Be careful it is pretty heavy!
Denise

rajhnsn · Oct 11, 2009

I think 50 to 75 pounds is about right. Once the bolt was out, we lowered the rudder by easing off the winch in the cockpit. Once the post cleared the boat we were able to drag it out of the hole and two people picked it up easily.

Regarding the condensation, I would bet that water is getting in at the seal between the post and the rudder. Foss foam admits that this is an area of weakness. Re-caulking this area is a good idea from time to time. Foss Foam made the original rudders for Oday and many other production sailboats. They are still in business and can be found on the Web

jibes138 · Oct 11, 2009

You can also get a rudder from Rudy at D&R Marine in Mass. He advertises them on his web page. They might be made by Foss, the cost is about 2500 or a little less.

rajhnsn · Oct 12, 2009

I found that Rudy was a little higher priced than going through Foss Foam directly. He is a great resource for many parts and ideas however.

jibes138 · Nov 1, 2009

ODO carries the rudders also if you want to replace it with new.

Check out their store and I'm pretty sure they distribute the rudders now.

My delamination was at least the size of a football. I was worried abou the integrity of the internal structure sitting in un oxygenated water. Last thing I needed was to lose a rudder at sea.

jibes138 · Nov 15, 2009

Barrier coat

You probably want to put a couple coats of barrier coat on the rudder while your at it to stop any water infiltration through the laminate. The skin on a rudder is pretty thin. If no other reason it is an easy part of your project while your at it. I'd suggest a good sanding of the whole rudder followed by several coats of west epoxy or some barrier coat product.
To blend in your repair you might try ripping a thin strip of pine on a table saw, this will then be very flexible yet stiff enough not to sag. You can then use it to match the shape of the rudder in the surrounding area and draw it across some fairing compound and it should blend perfectly with the surrounding area.

rajhnsn · Dec 6, 2009

I noticed that after about a week on the hard the bottom paint had spider cracking on the sides of my new rudder. I'm not sure if the paint did not adhear well to the new gelgoat or there was some expansion and contraction once the boat was out of the water. I'm sure I wiped down the new rudder with 216 but I did not use a de-waxer. I covered the rudder with Ti-veck to present a light covered surface to prevent overheating in the spring. I would think that the temperature would have to get into the 90's for the foam to expand and cause delamination.

DeniseO30 · Dec 6, 2009

Raj.. if it freezed the moisture will make it swell also. drill a hole in the bottom let drain over the winter. epoxy the hole when it's dry and warm.

BarryL · Dec 7, 2009

Hello,

I am trying to remove my rudder but I don't know what hardware to remove.

Can anyone point out in the image what HW I need to remove?

Thanks,
Barry

DeniseO30 · Dec 8, 2009

Barry, you have the same set up as on my boat. the pic you have is of the quadrant. After you release the cable from it the hub will come apart. there is a couple of bolts on the hub and rim, also one thatgoes all the way thru the hub. That is the one that keeps the post from dropping also. Once we had the hole dug in the ground and got over the fear of breaking that thru bolt the whole thing dropped right out of the boat! http://www.edsonmarine.com/marinest...th=287&zenid=19e20c2f7785b2d738da521adf0d926c

rajhnsn · Dec 8, 2009

New Rudder

DeniseO30 said:
Raj.. if it freezed the moisture will make it swell also. drill a hole in the bottom let drain over the winter. epoxy the hole when it's dry and warm.

I'm a little reluctant to drill a hole into a brand new rudder. I don't think we had any freezing weather soon after November 13 but we may have.

BTW, We have a mutual friend at Anchor Yacht Club-- Joe P.

I'm a member at Riverton Yacht Club.

Rudder removal for an O'day 35

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