Rudder rebuild?

T

TJBurkett

.
Jun 2, 2004
128
Hi Everyone,

Last night while backing I lost all steerage and the tiller swung
effortlessly from side to side. Needless to say it was interesting
getting her back to the dock, but I did get into a slip and secured
without serious mishap.

The question, or maybe it should be fear that I have, is that I have
broken the tabs that are on the rudder shaft and anchor the rudder to
the shaft. I have heard that this is a weak point with Vegas.

Has anyone had this happen to them? Could it be something else besides
the shaft tabs? Whats the best way to fix this if the tabs are broken?
Any help or advice is much appreciated.

Tom
 
S

stevebirch2002

.
Nov 8, 2001
1,818
Hi Tom

Check that the tiller head is not just turning on the shaft, if the
shaft is also turning then I reckon the tangs have broken their weld.
There is an article on how to rebuild a new rudder. Not heard of one
breaking before personally.

Cheers

Steve B
 
W

wxt8981

.
Oct 31, 2019
562
Hi Steve;

a good advise is to check the sling when taking the boat
out of the water. I've seen very careless operators
positioning the sling on the rudder. I have markings on my
boat where the (aft) sling should be positioned.
Another good advise is when stuck aground never to tow a
boat backwards. It's a good way to brake the rudder. Always
insist to tow from the bow and forward.
This may have nothing to do with Tom's problem, but it is
still a good thing to know.

Wilhelm, V-257
 
P

pelagicasd

.
Jan 28, 2001
694
Hi Tom.

Sorry to hear about your mishap as I've been there and done that. Ran
aground one night with a fellow nicknamed Bear as crew and on the tiller.
"Don't worry Walt, I'll get us off." as he quickly worked the tiller back
and forth with the rudder firmly planted in the muddy clay we had run into.
I hauled out to fix the problem but it could be done in the water with help
from a diver. You have to remove the rudder assembly to do so. Steps are as
follows:
Remove the tiller with a couple of wrenchs.
Remove the tiller bracket with an allen wrench. You will also need a punch
and a hammer to drive out the tapered pin that is also in the bracket.
Sorry, I can't remember which way the taper goes.
If it doesn't come out from one direction try the other.
After you have the bracket off you can drop the rudder by removing the
bronze shoe from the rear of the keel. Two bolts hold it on and if I recall
it takes a 14mm socket.
Once you have the rudder off you have to split it. The blade is made from
two halves that are glassed together. Lyric is a Series 1 so what I have to
say may not be true for later Vegas.
I was able to split mine by cutting the forward edge along the shaft. Then
you can pry it apart. I found mine to have a couple of surprisingly small
tabs welded to the rudder. When these fracutured
the blade had nothing to bear on. On Lyric the shaft went about half way
down the blade. There was another short piece of stainless shaft at the foot
for the shoe to attach to. I think it's about 25mm.
The blade was filled filled with a resin and sand mix. I had to dig this out
in order to put the blade back together after the shaft had been re-welded
with larger tabs.
Putting it back together wasn't difficult. I used epoxy thickened with
cabosil to make a paste and put the two halves around the shaft. I drilled
a dozen or so holes through the blade and through bolted it with 1/4 inch
machine screw. After the epoxy had cured I removed the screws and filled the
holes with more epoxy.
I put several layers of fibreglas tape over the seam in front of the rudder.
No problems since then and the repair was in the early 90s.
As an aside, I also drilled a 1/2" hole about 2/3 rds of the way down an
inch or so in from the trailing edge. If the tab should ever break again I
can go over the side and put a 3/8" piece of line through the hole and with
overhand knots snugged up to the blade, steer it with the line.

Good luck with the repair. Walt S/V Lyric #120
 
T

TJBurkett

.
Jun 2, 2004
128
Hi Walt,

Thanks for the reply. It was interesting trying to figure out what
was wrong- In forward I could turn to starboard, but not to port and
I couldn't back worth a dam. After some hemming and hawing I had the
boat hauled to see what the problem was, and I discovered that the
rudder was split along the leading edge. I'm planning on taking the
rudder off this week and then figuring out what to do - your
experience helps considerably, especially since my vega is a series I
as well (#398). I do have a couple of questions which maybe you can
answer;

Did you have the boat blocked up far enough to slide the rudder down,
or did you remove the rudder with the boat in the slings?

It looks like the clearance between the rudder and the keel is pretty
tight. Did you have any trouble with this when you reglassed the
halfes together?

Thanks for the tips on getting the rudder off. I assumed thats how it
came off, but its always good to hear from someone who has done the
job.

Tom
 
S

stevebirch2002

.
Nov 8, 2001
1,818
Best to get the rudder off with the boat in the slings otherwise you
will need 4 feet clearance below!

There may be a tapered pin holding the top of the rudder fitting. This
may have to be drilled out (mine did).

Cheers

Steve B

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V

vegatern

.
Oct 2, 2005
465
Hello Tom,
Since reading your first posting about the rudder failure, and then
reading the file on this list on how to build a new rudder, I have
been thinking of building a new rudder this winter in the shop and
then replacing the existing one when I haul in the spring. It would
be more relaxing if I weren't paying for the lay days while I repaired
the existing one , and it just sounds like fun anyway. The
instructions in the file appear very complete except that the overall
length of the shaft is not included. When you have the rudder off,
and if you find you have the time, would you take off that measurement
for me? I think the Tern is a series 2 because she is #1519 ,was
built in 1973, and I believe she originally had a MD6 , so maybe the
rudder is different than a series 1. Would anybody know? Thanks, and
good luck with your project.
Craig
 
T

TJBurkett

.
Jun 2, 2004
128
Hi Craig,

I'll be glad to measure the shaft and send it along-I'll also take
some pictures and post. The boat I have is a series I (#398) so some
measurments may be different-maybe Steve B. knows about this.

I was able to take the rudder off this morning before work-I think it
may have been the easiest job I've ever done on the boat! The bolts
on the bottom shoe were glassed over, but once I chipped away a
little glass the bolt heads came into view (their recessed, but the
bedding was easy to get out and then no problem getting a 15 mm
socket around them). On my boat the bolt heads are on the port side.
The pin at the top of the rudder post was also easy to drive out with
a punch and hammer. One thing is that the rudder weighs more than I
thought and when I was wiggiling it free almost dropped it on my
foot. I took the rudder off with the boat in the slings and suspended
over a small work barge. The whole job probably took about 45
minutes.

The rudder is separated all along the forward edge, although
everything else looks ok. I'm trying to decide if it's worth spliting
the rudder and taking everything apart, or to just glass and epoxy
over the joint / separation.
 
O

o2n7dcolin

.
Jul 10, 2009
125
I seperated mine a few years back. Checked the welds and epoxied it back together. Mine had seperated a bit on the bottom and top next to the shaft. I put a strip of 2" glass around the joint and then covered the complete rudder with two layers of glass with some overlapping on the edges. So all in all where there is not much clearance next to the keel it was no problem after cleaning out all the anti fouling. Colin...V-703
 
P

pelagicasd

.
Jan 28, 2001
694
Hi Tom, Sorry about the delay in getting back to you. Sounds like most of
your questions have been answered by others (or figured out by you). Do you
have her back together yet or any further questions? Walt
 
Y

yer_amigo

.
May 8, 2005
5
Hi Tom,
There is a discussion regarding a rudder rebuild on the Rawson Owners' Network that
might be of interest. Try this link:

groups.yahoo.com

Yahoo! Groups

groups.yahoo.com groups.yahoo.com

and search Rudder Rebuild in the messages. Hope this helps. - Robert
 
R

rogerefairest

.
Jul 6, 2007
106
Dear All,

The moment has arrived for me to start the really
nasty job of removing my inboard engine, so I need
some suggestions on how to plug the hole left behind
(by the propeller shaft), I dont what it to be
permanent since this will probably reduce the resale
value, but I want it to be watertight, so if any one
has any ideas please.........

On a similar note, I have the engine (0-22, petrol)
with completely new electrics (which I am selling) I
spent over £300 (I will take £100 including postage)
buying this amount of gear (spark plugs, spark plug
leads, solenoid, condenser, points, belt, and those
are the ones I can remember).

If any one is interested, they are out of the box but
never used (I installed them then I found that the
shaft was "loose" so I left it like that and installed
an outboard, this was back in March).

Let me know.

Cheers

Roger



____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
 
R

rchrdcoe

.
Dec 11, 2007
179
- - port st. lucie,fl.
Why not simply leave the prop shaft in? Remove the prop and clamp the
shaft right against the packing gland so it will not come out.
Richard
 
C

coldnorthtoy

.
Oct 30, 2019
57
The vessel I've just bought had the inboard removed as well, and if I
understood correctly, this is what was done:

The stuffing box was capped with a bronze pipe cap. This provides the
seal against the ocean visiting your cabin uninvited.

In order to keep things from growing in the shaft log, the end was
plugged with a wooden bung; though, it was for that purpose only.

I suspect that simply 'corking the shaft' without sealing it at the
other end could prove ... soggy, if said cork were to
wiggle/nudge/bump its way out of the shaft log.

Hope that helps!

Jonathan
#2221
 
J

jkepleriv

.
Oct 15, 2004
14
Another alternative:
On a friend's Vega (after the MD7 seized) we had a machine shop make
a plate to replace the stern bearing housing out of stainless steel,
used the original bolts to attach it (properly gasketed). I still
think bronze would have been better underwater, but I lost the
argument. The hole is sealed and it he or a future owner wants to
repower with an inboard all it takes is unbolting the plate. gA
little more expensive than a pine plug, but I feel more comfortable
with this arrangement.Don Shelton
 
R

rogerefairest

.
Jul 6, 2007
106
Thanks for the options, definitely the custom made
plug is the better one, but I think I am going to try
the bronze pipe first (and last with some luck).

Leaving the shaft in place will take too much space
and defeat the purpose a bit.

Cheers

Roger
 
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