Rudder Question

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Aug 4, 2009
204
Oday 25 Olympia
The rudder on our ODay 25 has a draft 7" greater than the stub keel, board up. We are tide-bound in our moorage and require a 8'+ tide to clear the entrance bar. My worry is clearing the bar with the keel only to snag the rudder and maybe tear out the lower gudgen or pintle.
From my reading here I understand the ODay 22 has a pivoting rudder and I was wondering if the same design might work for the 25.
How do the cheeks clear the lower pintle? Where is the pivot? Is the rudder blade cut on an arc or straight, horizontally or slanted? How do you like it and what problems have shown up?
I've been toying with various configurations none of which are very satisfactory and sure could use some help.
Thanks much, Geohan
 
Sep 25, 2008
992
Oday 25 Gibraltar
My sailing area is pretty weedy, especially floating weeds drifting down from Lake St. Clair. Plus there has been a lot of talk on this forum of O'day rudders breaking- some said it's not if but when. So last year I bit the bullet and bought a swing up rudder from Rudder Craft (formerly Ida Sailor).
http://www.idasailor.com/catalog/default.php
I'm well satisfied. Expensive but worth it. I'm also able to swing up the rudder at my dock- Lake Erie is on the low side now and under the right conditions (westerly winds and certain atmospheric conditions)
I've seen the water drop 3 to 5 feet.

Rich
 
Jan 24, 2005
4,881
Oday 222 Dighton, Ma.
The rudder on our ODay 25 has a draft 7" greater than the stub keel, board up. We are tide-bound in our moorage and require a 8'+ tide to clear the entrance bar. My worry is clearing the bar with the keel only to snag the rudder and maybe tear out the lower gudgen or pintle.
From my reading here I understand the ODay 22 has a pivoting rudder and I was wondering if the same design might work for the 25.
How do the cheeks clear the lower pintle? Where is the pivot? Is the rudder blade cut on an arc or straight, horizontally or slanted? How do you like it and what problems have shown up?
I've been toying with various configurations none of which are very satisfactory and sure could use some help.
Thanks much, Geohan
Hi Geohan,
The O'Day 192s and the O'Day 222s have tip up rudders and I personally like them. We don't have a lot of depth at Low Tide in our YC mooring field and consequently I keep my rudder blade in the up position when I moor.
My tip up rudder came with a pendant line with a one foot length of 3/16" bungee cord attached to it with a hog ring. The bungee has a loop on the end which goes around a bolt attached to the rudder head just under the tiller. The purpose of the bungee is to tighten up the pendant line at the upper portion of the rudder blade and keep it centered so that the line doesn't get caught between the blade and the inside of the rudder head which will jam every time. This isn't always the case though even with the bungee. I had to tweak up the rudder head a little to get a tighter fit for the blade.
This pendant line which is attached to the blade, runs from the back of the blade and up inside the back of the rudder head and exits over a bolt under the tiller to a self rescue clam cleat under the tiller. The purpose of the pendant line is to keep the blade in the down position. The upper portion of the blade has a flat spot on the edge which bottoms out on a piece of Teak in the rudder head. If the rudder blade should creep up a little while you're sailing, you will feel a lot of weather helm in your tiller.
I made some vast changes to my rudder through the years. I added a second pendant line to hold my blade in the up position, which included a brass fair lead on top of the rudder head and a second self rescue type clam cleat on top of the tiller. I also use an O'Day 25 tiller which is more substantial than the chintzy tiller that came with my boat. Because my tiller is wider than the other one I had, I needed to raise my rudder head up by lowering my pintles. Otherwise, my tiller would have rubbed the top of my transom. The blade on my rudder protrudes under my boat a few inches and I'm glad that I had the clearance to raise my rudder head.
I also had to add some aluminum stops to hold my tiller up. I Mickey Moused it from things that I bought at a local hardware store in town.
My tiller has a stainless steel pin for my autopilot. The reason for the leather sewn to the tiller near the pin is for chafing protection for when I tie off my tiller to my stern cleats.
A couple of years ago, someone on this forum made his own tip up rudder for his O'Day 25 and it came out excellent. Maybe he'll chime in. I'm pretty sure that I have the pictures of it that I took off this site after he posted them. At any rate, here are some pics of my tip up rudder for you to check out.
Joe
 

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Aug 4, 2009
204
Oday 25 Olympia
Thanks Joe and RBone. The pictures tell it all and I hadn't even thought of the weeds (or kelp). Joe, I'm thinking I might route the hold down line up through the pintles to avoid jamming in the case. And by welding the lower pintle to the case, all articulating parts can be well above the water line. Thanks again, it was just what I needed.
Geohan
 
Jan 24, 2005
4,881
Oday 222 Dighton, Ma.
Thanks Joe and RBone. The pictures tell it all and I hadn't even thought of the weeds (or kelp). Joe, I'm thinking I might route the hold down line up through the pintles to avoid jamming in the case. And by welding the lower pintle to the case, all articulating parts can be well above the water line. Thanks again, it was just what I needed.
Geohan
Geohan,
Are you planning on building a tip up rudder from scratch? As far as I know, the OD 25 rudders are all fiberglass with stainless steel hardware. I would build one from scratch and keep your old rudder for a spare. You would need to build a rudder head out of stainless or Aluminum. A friend of mine in the YC built a rudder head for his Bayliner Buccaneer and used the original wood blade for the tip up. I have pics of that. The last two pics are of an OD23 rudder that some other guy on the forum posted several years ago. He did an excellent job of building a tip up rudder as did my friend Keith. As you can see in the first couple of pics, keith used fiber spacers inside his rudder head. If you do build a rudder blade, it's important to attain the same blade angle as your present blade in relation to the transom of your boat when that blade is all the way down. If the blade is off or tipped up by a quarter of an inch, you'll feel it in the tiller when you're sailing. I present the pics of Keith's rudder, compliments of my friend Keith who agreed to let me post them. As for the other pics, I don't remember who posted them, but he did post them on the ODO site several years back and they may be still in the archives. Whoever he is, I thank him now for posting them.
Hopefully you'll get some ideas from all of these pics. Good luck!
Joe
 

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Aug 4, 2009
204
Oday 25 Olympia
Can't thank you and you friend Keith, enough Joe. Building from scratch is an exellent idea. It wouldn't tie up the boat during construction, taking the pressure off of early completion, and allow a little design tweeking to optimize the contact area of the blade in its scabbard. 'Way to go'
Geohan
 
Jan 24, 2005
4,881
Oday 222 Dighton, Ma.
Can't thank you and you friend Keith, enough Joe. Building from scratch is an exellent idea. It wouldn't tie up the boat during construction, taking the pressure off of early completion, and allow a little design tweeking to optimize the contact area of the blade in its scabbard. 'Way to go'
Geohan
Geohan,
Here's a link to an O'Day 222 tip up rudder blade which is similar to mine http://www.drmarine.com/proddetail.asp?prod=O222-28 with one exception. My blade doesn't have that little round indentation on the flat spot in the upper right hand side of the blade. That flat spot rests on a piece of Teak inside of my rudder head when the blade is all the way down.
If you decide to build a pivot blade, you should try to copy the one pictured and set it up so that the blade in the head lines up with your old rudder.
One of the guys in my YC built a spade rudder from scratch for his O'Day 27 a couple of years ago and it came out good. Use a good Epoxy resin like West Systems. Epoxy won't soak up water like the Polyester Resin.
I would also try to make the upper portion of the blade nice and square so that it fits in the rudder head with less chance of the pendant line getting caught between the blade and the inside of the head.
The two holes for the 1/4" braid pendant line can be drilled later when the blade is finished. Mine has a 1/4" hole in the upper leading edge which enters a 3/4" hole on the side of the blade. The 1/4" line enters and comes into the 3/4" hole. Then a figure eight knot is tied and the hole is sealed with whatever you want to use. My blade had a small plastic plug cover over this hole and I lost it many years ago, so now I fill the hole with caulking and paint over it with bottom paint. Let me know how you make out. Good luck!
Joe
 

caguy

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Sep 22, 2006
4,004
Catalina, Luger C-27, Adventure 30 Marina del Rey
Joe what is the leather sleeve for?

 
Jan 24, 2005
4,881
Oday 222 Dighton, Ma.
Joe what is the leather sleeve for?

I use two 5/16" braid ropes with bowlines on one end to slip through and over my stern cleats, and I tie these lines to my tiller to keep it centered when the boat is at anchor or on the mooring. The ropes are tied over the leather for chafe protection.
 
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