Hello, I own a 1979 28 ft O'Day. It has a tiller. Here is my question. I have never been able to figure out what goes between the rudder stalk and the hull. The rudder tube on the inside is fiberglass and it goes from the hull all the way to the cockpit, so there is no chance of it leaking. The rudder is scraping the hull and is a little sloppy. Thank You
Rudder Problems
- Thread starter Mick143
- Start date
Looking at your pictures indicates the round spacer/shim is now too thin. I would add more shim material in that gap that is shown in the picture to get the top of that rudder away from the hull. It appears you need to repair that chafing of the hull as well. You might also explore feasibility of filing top edge of rudder down some to widen gap between it and hull. Vertical post wear could also play a part in this by pitching the rudder. Especially in reverse? Chief
Purchase a west systems Fiberglass boat repair and Maintenance booklet
You will find the following info along with much more. You can then decide if it is something you want to take on or not. This was done to my boat and the rudder is very solid. Your boat is due.
You will find the following info along with much more. You can then decide if it is something you want to take on or not. This was done to my boat and the rudder is very solid. Your boat is due.
I presume that you also know that the rudder tube has grease zerts and is supposed to be filled with grease. Should help with the sloppiness. Not sure how your rudder gets around so far as to cause the wearing in photos. I would have some concern for the apparent crack in the hull / barrier coat immediately behind rudder post. Might be an optical illusion, but would check.
TLW: Wow! I think you are right as that sure does look like a crack. Your other point is also good. I would look into a stop system for this rudder as I think that it is rotating too much . Chief
I agree with TLW, greasing the rudder tube via the grease fittings may solve the sloppiness.
The hairline crack is below the waterline so I would expect that you have water intrusion between the rudder stock and the rudder. How does the rest of the rudder look? If you see wet spots on the rudder after sitting on the hard for a while you have water in the rudder. If you're in a location that freezes the water will expand while on the hard and cause other cracks in the rudder ultimately leading to rudder delamination and perhaps failure. You'll read several post about some owners who routinely drill small pilot holes in the bottom of the rudder while on the hard so that they can drain and then plug them up prior to relaunch.
I've attached a photo of Karma's which shows the wet spots. From your photos, I wouldn't expect a crisis at this time, just something to keep and eye on.
The hairline crack is below the waterline so I would expect that you have water intrusion between the rudder stock and the rudder. How does the rest of the rudder look? If you see wet spots on the rudder after sitting on the hard for a while you have water in the rudder. If you're in a location that freezes the water will expand while on the hard and cause other cracks in the rudder ultimately leading to rudder delamination and perhaps failure. You'll read several post about some owners who routinely drill small pilot holes in the bottom of the rudder while on the hard so that they can drain and then plug them up prior to relaunch.
I've attached a photo of Karma's which shows the wet spots. From your photos, I wouldn't expect a crisis at this time, just something to keep and eye on.
Attachments
Does anyone else see a 2nd crack in the HULL running 45 degrees at top forward of rudder? Sorry, but owner really needs to inspect this. Chief
I really can't see that 2nd crack, but doesn't mean it's not there. I DO, however, now see what looks like a vertical crack in the rudder, itself, right at the 11 o'clock position where it surrounds the rudder shaft. This being a tiller boat, it's not a big deal to drop the rudder and get things cleaned up on the rudder and hull in this area.
Sorry Chief, but I don't see it either. I see the area forward of the rudder on the left of the pictures that looks like the rudder has been rubbing the hull, which is curious. Also what looks like a trail of water on the hull aft of the rudder on the right side of the picture. And of course the crack on the leading edge of the rudder itself.
But no crack on the hull forward of the rudder.
But no crack on the hull forward of the rudder.
could this just be a paint chip instead of crack everyone is seeing, that is what i assumed after looking at the photo.
similar subject, does anyone have a layout of the rudder post. Now I am anxious to inspect my rudder closer below waterline, I DO need to take care of some slop that developeed in the top of the post.
similar subject, does anyone have a layout of the rudder post. Now I am anxious to inspect my rudder closer below waterline, I DO need to take care of some slop that developeed in the top of the post.
I see the rudder wearing a hole in the hull. I don't see the rudder being very useful at that angle to the hull anyway. I see a ridge running aft of the rudder that could indicate a crack, but we would have to see another angle. I see a crack bleeding rust on the forward edge of the rudder right below the tube. I also see some hardware exposed between the aft edge of the upper washer and the hull. Looks like a screw, but I can't be sure. I also see a very short ridge running from the exposed hardware aft for about 1/4 inch in the unpainted area. This could be a crack too.
Disassemble, repair, reassemble! That will insure no problems.
Thanks,
Andrew
Disassemble, repair, reassemble! That will insure no problems.
Thanks,
Andrew
Looks like a paint chip to me also. I don't think you need a thicker spacer as much as a spacer on top ( below tiller coupling).Also a very good , tough spacer can be made from Lexan plexi. You can get it in any thickness, its super tough, won't crack & you can use a hole saw to drill a piece that you need, also Polyurithan(?) it also super tough.the way the rudder/tiller is set up most of your pressure is from the top.The water going past the rudder must push down on the rudder pulling it tighter on the deck.
(Just my 2 cents).
Jim
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Everyone kind of going over old ground here, but the consensus, I believe, is that the rudder should be dropped, everything cleaned up, and inspected with the appropriate remedy to follow. Not a big deal.
Most rudder spacers for the last 20 years have been made from high molecular weight plastic not only for strength, but also for the low friction properties.
Most rudder spacers for the last 20 years have been made from high molecular weight plastic not only for strength, but also for the low friction properties.
There are Delrin bushings in that glass tube that are shot. Your top spacer that is between the rudder head and the tube is also shot. When you drop the rudder the bushings can be removed from the top of the fiberglass tube by inserting a dowel and tapping them upward from the bottom. Measure the rudder post and look for signs of obvious wear. Check for a bent post by using a very accurate straight edge and check it's alignment with the rudder blade itself. Had this on my 27 so I got raw Delrin and made custom bushings as mine had chafed the tube. Much nicer without a wobbly rudder.
Do it now while it's out of the water. Doing the work will give you confidence in future larger projects. My boat was done with the West systems mold in place bearing material but 25yearslater solution maybe easier if you have a handy machine shop.
Joe, would you have any pics of your rudder tube and bushings you made. I know Rudy has stock replacements.....were you saving $ or do you have a better design? Did you have any water intrusion in your rudder?
T French
Hi tfrench. The pictures of the rudder repair are on page 3 of "And so it begins" thread. I made my own as I had ready access to Delrin and I could compensate for any dimensional discrepancy in the rudder tube. I did encounter some wear in the aluminum but I probably went ridiculously close on the tolerance. .001 over the tube diameter. I also had to build up a wear spot in the fiberglass tube using epoxy and high density filler. The lower bushing had worn the fiberglass to an egg shape. Coated the bushing with Crisco and slid that down into the epoxy. Then inserted the top bushing and inserted the rudder tube into and attached the rudder head. Align and let cure. Coated the aluminum rudder tube with Crisco as well to keep any epoxy from fixing it dead ahead. Standard bushings from Rudy would work just as well. Perhaps a bit more clearance but not too much to be a problem. I also doubled the length of the lower bushing for more support. 2 regular bushings would do the same thing if someone were inclined. Additionally by making my own bushings I was able to close the rudder/hull gap to a hairs width cutting down on the drag.
Hi Joe,
Hope your still enjoying your boat. Just wondering if you have any projects underway.
Cheers,
TFrench
very interesting! I sure like the work you do....don't find that level of quality these days. Wife and I just returned from 400 mile trip to the channel islands from our home port in morro bay. The boat did well .....had it in 35knts and was pleasantly surprised at the stability and speed the result of hull shape but that leads to a uncomfortable motion at anchor which was solved with a "flopper stopper" purchased from west marine. Gurney did a good job.
Still have some trim and a locker to do in the cabin and exterior paint but other than that I'm about done.....if there is such a thing on a boat.
One last thing is when I ordered new rudder bushings from Rudy I assumed they would fit. Not so. I called rudy and after a long pause he told me that I had one of the boats they put a Cal rudder/shaft/tube on. They were built in the same factory. Mine has no bushings but has a glass tube that should be greased filled. He told me to thread in zircs and pump in water proof ( lithium) grease.
That's what I did and all seems well. So I suppose I have a Odacal.
Cheers,
Tim