Rudder packing material on Hunter Cherubini

Oct 6, 2007
767
Hunter H30c 1982 Chicago IL
Dalliance's solution for reattaching the skeg sounds right on. But, for cold climates, why not the 'glass? Too cold for good curing? The 5200 will be much less flexible in cold water than the 'glass will be. Just use plenty of MEKP and keep it warm as it cures. This is what God invented Harbor Freight heat guns at $14.99 for. :dancing:
The issue with glass over the skeg-hull joint is not curing or flexibility in cold temperatures. It's one of access and sequence. You stick the skeg on to the hull with 5200 and bolts, then want to glass over the joint, but the rudder went in before the skeg and there is about 1/4" between the two. You can't glass over the top end of the skeg-hull joint in that space. There is no access. So you glass over effectively three of four sides of the skeg to hull joint. Water seeps in from the unglassed top end during the summer, collects behind the lower end of the glassed over joint, then freezes and expands in the winter and pops the glass off the joint and/or it finds a way between the skeg core and fiberglass and causes delamination.
How do I know this? When I bought the boat, it was evident that the P.O.'s glassed over the joint had failed -- multiple times -- and skeg was delaminated. I didn't understand why at the time and had the same repair done, twice, by local glass experts. After a few years, I gained more confidence in my own knowledge and observations of the boat, eventually put 2 & 2 together, and insisted no more glass on that joint. Problem solved. If there is a way to glass together the top end of that joint without access to it, none of the glass experts I consulted offered it up.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes: kito

Alctel

.
Dec 13, 2013
263
Hunter 36 Victoria
The rudder system varies depending on the model, but the 30 is the same as the 36 right?
 

kito

.
Sep 13, 2012
2,011
1979 Hunter Cherubini 30 Clemmons
The rudder system varies depending on the model, but the 30 is the same as the 36 right?
Hey Alctel. They may be similar but it sounds like the Hunter Cherubini's changed not only from models but from year to year. I would think it's basically the same setup. Some may be easier to work on though.
 

kito

.
Sep 13, 2012
2,011
1979 Hunter Cherubini 30 Clemmons
Kito, if you have the Edson round quadrant (why do they still call it a 'quadrant' if it's round?) then it comes apart in two halves to be removed. The first piece comes off the through-bolt; the second one requires some serious wiggling to pull it and the bolt out. This part is still available at Edson.

If it is the other Edson quadrant, there is a removable clamp on the forward side with two bolts, stainless into bronze, each side. This will come apart and separate from the rudder stock, with the same effect of getting the through-bolt out. I've never seen a quadrant that installed by lowering it down onto the rudder stock and removed the opposite way. This is because stainless-steel schedule-40 pipe is never made to machine tolerances. You could order a quadrant to fit one place on the pipe and it wouldn't fit somewhere else-- too tight going on or too loose where it had to seat. They should all come apart somehow.

This is also, needless to say (or is it?) the best time to change your rudder cables. If there is any place at all on them that is hairy, brown, black (worst!) or giving you any idea that they're more than 15-20 years old, change them. Edson can make them up for you from their in-house data or you can take them to any rigger, or even to WM, and have them made up or do it yourself. And, yes; I would replace the chain too, if it's original. Yes; this will entail about $300-400 in parts but if it hasn't been done in 20 years, it's long been time for it.
Hey J jr, just wanted to thank you again for the split quadrant tip. It took about an hour but I did get the quadrant apart and rudder stuffing box and volcano hose removed. It all slid up and out the emergency tiller access port. I did have to destroy my new $10 4" access port plate though. The 4" opening wasn't quite enough to get the stuffing flange through. I cracked the access plate frame prying it up. The hose that was on there was not a wire reinforced hose. I don't think I can use one. The volcano O.D. is a little larger than the flange O.D. It looks like it had to be stretched a little to get on the volcano. A wire reinforced hose will be tough to get on. Anyway, I am very pleased that I didn't have to remove the skeg etc. I escaped with only a couple cuts on my hands and a sore back :). Putting that quadrant back together may be a b&*ch though :(
 
  • Like
Likes: Ed Schenck
Jun 2, 2004
5,802
Hunter 37-cutter, '79 41 23' 30"N 82 33' 20"W--------Huron, OH
We all call it a "quadrant". Edson calls it a "radial wheel" which I guess it is.
 

Alctel

.
Dec 13, 2013
263
Hunter 36 Victoria
I just replaced the hose and repacking the stuffing on my 36. If I hadn't forgotten how to reconnect the quadrant it wouldn't have been that tricky, those it's in a tricky spot to access.

I hauled out to do it, though I think I could maybe do it in the water next time with a good line holding up the rudder.

Write up is here
 
Last edited:

kito

.
Sep 13, 2012
2,011
1979 Hunter Cherubini 30 Clemmons
I just replaced the hose and repacking the stuffing on my 36. If I hadn't forgottan how to reconnect the quadrant it wouldn't have been that tricky.

Write up is here
Thanks for the link to your write up. Those Cherubini's are gorgeous boats ain't they? ;) It looks just like my 30 only the rudder post comes up to the stern seat and not the floor. It also does not have a collar on the top but 3 or 4 layers plywood with holes for the post and screwed into each other to stabilize the top. I got my new hose and flax today. If it warms up this weekend I will put it back together. Btw, my rudder stuffing box uses 3/8" flax. I just went with the cheaper flax instead of the GFO stuff. It's not like it sees high rpm :)
 

Alctel

.
Dec 13, 2013
263
Hunter 36 Victoria
Huh, strange that yours uses a couple of sizes bigger than mine! The top of my post actually goes through a hole at the top of the rear locker and terminates there which stabilises it - I don't think I made that very clear.

Good luck with the replacement!
 

kito

.
Sep 13, 2012
2,011
1979 Hunter Cherubini 30 Clemmons
Your stuffing box is different than mine. On mine, the top flange is just flat, the other that connects to the hose has an undercut for just one wrap of 3/8" flax. When the two are screwed together and the flax is compressed, it leaves about a 1/16" gap between them. My 30 has a skeg, not sure if the 36 does or not. Probably why mine lacks any kind of support on top since it sits on the skeg.
 

kito

.
Sep 13, 2012
2,011
1979 Hunter Cherubini 30 Clemmons
Well, I spent the afternoon trying to get my rudder packing and quadrant put all back together today. I failed miserably. I bought a piece of Shield 3" ID marine hose with wire reinforcement....bad choice. It fit the bronze stuffing box flange fine but the rudder volcano is 3" at the top but has a slight taper. That hose just will not expand enough. There was softwall on there before but much prefer the semi rigid. The volcano has a pretty thick wall and wished Hunter would have took an extra 30 seconds and ground down a round 2" long section at the top so you can use a semi-rigid hose instead of softwall. I ground one side that I could get to but still a no go.
 
Oct 6, 2007
767
Hunter H30c 1982 Chicago IL
Sounds like you bought exhaust hose. You need log hose. I think that Buck Algonquin may be about the only place you can get it. It is quite thick and is reinforced with fiber cord; not wire. I think I used a size larger than 3", maybe 3.25" or 3.5"(?), but I also installed it on an unusually warm spring day and left it out in the sun for a while first. Softening the hose with a heat gun might help in cooler weather, but not if it's wire reinforced. I would not grind down the fiberglass log tube. I'ld be afraid of weakening it.
The B Algonqiun hose is so thick that, with both my shaft log hose and the rudder log hose, even though I tightened the hose clamps as much as I thought I could, I found a few days later that I was able to tighten the clamps a few more turns. The hose seams to compress slowly to conform to irregular log tube surfaces.
 

kito

.
Sep 13, 2012
2,011
1979 Hunter Cherubini 30 Clemmons
Dalliance, I did use the Buck hose on my prop shaft stuffing box. I figured it wasn't necessary for the rudder since it's basically above the waterline most of the time and not subjected to high torque like the prop shaft. Like you said, it's hard to clamp that thick Buck hose. It's hard enough to clamp it on a perfectly round and smooth surface much less a lumpy, tapered volcano. They had 3" softwall on there before and looked like it worked for years. There is no staining on the volcano indicating leaks anyway. I guess I'll try again next weekend after I get my hose ;)
 
Oct 6, 2007
767
Hunter H30c 1982 Chicago IL
Mine was also previously soft wall which seemed to have been fine for many years, and I agree the Buck Algonquin hose does kind of seem like over-kill there, but it's only a few dollars more and my thinking was I don't want to be doing this job again.
 
Apr 28, 2020
1
Hunter H33 Cherubini Miami
Hello Everyone ,

Need some help ! I have a hunter 33 cherubini 1980. My rudder port / rudder tube is bronze and goes thru the hull . ( see attached images )

The tube / port is able to rotate when turning the rudder or if I put a wrench on it . See short video attached.

Question is how do I repair it ?
 

Attachments

Jun 5, 2010
1,067
Hunter 25 Burlington NJ
So you just made a few wraps around the shaft?!
When you’re doing packing material, in general you do NOT wrap it against itself. Most bronze pieces are meant to hold ONE pass of the material, butted together. Wrap the packing round, stuffing it in carefully (do not tear or scuff the edges), and set one end in. When the other end comes round to the first end, carefully cut it off with an X-acto knife and press it in. You should be about 2 or 3 blade-widths too long. Much more will cause the packing string to bubble and then not fit.

The bronze collar is designed to fit precisely provided there is not too much packing.

Some collars may want more than one pass; but the principle is the same - do not just jam the whole roll in but provide a precision fit with the packing. More is NOT better - too much = a leak going to happen.

Some people advocate butting the two ends together with Life-Seal or silicone. This is a fool’s security as it won’t truly stick to the oiled packing material; it may for the moment you are tucking it in and pressing the collar back on but it WILL NOT hold to make up the gap from a too-short cut. The more common (and old-school, as it dates back before my generation) is to load it up with waterproof marine grease - compatible with what it’s already saturated with - before pressing the collar on. This has the benefit of oozing out should you put in too much and not messing up the fit.

Hunter and many other boatbuilders think they’re clever in using the same sort of packing glands for the rudder as for the propshaft; but this is not good practice on a sailboat. The proper thing is always to extend the rudder shaft sufficiently above the waterline (mine goes right to the deck, as I have a tiller!) before fitting the quadrant etc. If you can’t do that, the next best thing is to consult Tides Marine or PSS about a custom-fit (must be matched precisely to each boat’s actual shaft diameter) UHMW dripless shaft seal for your rudder - and then to get one for the propshaft too.