Rudder Haul line

[Chiriqui]

I'm not sure if line is attached correctly. I can not lift the rudder beyond horizontal. There just isn't the leverage available to rotate it beyond horizontal to the boat????

There is suppose to be one line correct. Pull one end and it raises the rudder and the other lowers it. Is that correct.

Does the line feed over the white pulley's in some respect?

I don't have a cleat. What's the cleat in the picture attached to. Or where is the best location for a cleat.

if you've got a photo of your rigging for this, I'd like to see it if it can be arranged.

 

[bobbo99]

Hi i have the same issue on my 23.5, in that the leverage is simply not enough to lift the heavy rudder past the vertical. I am thinking of having a longer line from the hole the PO has in the bottom end of the rudder with a bobble on the end to grab to pull up all the way. If its long enough i could even have it on deck all the time and use it in conjunction with the uphaul... i worry about a trailing rope getting tangled or caught in the prop, but i dot want ot restrict movement of the rudder.

on mine the cleat is on the bottom of the tiller assembly, i am attaching the image of the page in the Hunter 23.5 (hopefully not against copyright if so mods please remove)

rob

 

[Bob 04 H260]

I added a quick release cleat for the rudder down haul and a block to the rudder uphaul to make it easier to lift it all the way up. Here are a couple of pictures.

Are you having trouble lifting the rudder out of the water or getting rudder down straight to sail the boat ? It is usually more difficult to get it to go down than up. Often have to use your foot to get it under water then you can pull it the rest of the way down with the line.


One aside, a friend bought a 2002 Hunter 270 this spring and when I first looked at it noticed that the rudder had been installed backwards ! made it difficult to lift beyond horizontal, turned it over and no problem now. It appeared to have been used this way for a very long time, even had a hole drilled in the front edge for a line to lift it up.


Bob

 

[Bill Jones]

The rudder lift/lower system seems like a good idea on the 23.5's and 260's... just a shame it doesn't work. When I'm raising my rudder, I use the system to the point that I get the rudder in a horizontal position, then I basically lasso the bottom end of the rudder and pull it to a full upright position. I don't raise the rudder unless I'm putting the boat on the trailer and I only do that once a year, so my simple fix works well for me.

Bill Jones

 

[VT Fitz]

Same problem here getting it past horizontal on our 23.5. The PO of Grasshopper installed a shackle on the aft end of the rudder. We use the boat hook to fish it up from there. We then use a short line to attach a snapshackle and secure it to 2 rail cleats to discourage sway. I also have a PVC tiller holder I use for additional support. Will append photos in due course.

 

[Chiriqui]

Thank you gentlemen.

I'm pretty sure my rudder is installed with the right leading edge

I've thought of having a old bicycle tire tied to a rope to lasso it from the horizontal to full vertical up. Something like mentioned in one of the suggestions.

I think I'm going to order a replacement rudder. One sold on this website. I don't see myself able to get it even to a horizontal position in say 10 yrs from now when I'll be in my seventy's. I also don't like messing with a cotter pin to keep in down vertical. Do you guys have this issue where the rudder wants to back out of the water under sail? It came with a hole through the rudder for holding it down. I'm having trouble find a piece of plastic to act as a pin here in Panama. Best I've come up with is a tooth brush handle I can sand down to fit in. I find this an annoying. I suppose a wood dole would work, they are available but if it swelled up then it might get stuck in the hole

The red rubber gasket on either side, although worn and needing replacement, doesn't offer enough resistance without cranking down the wing nut to the point that it's hard to open when I need to.

Any reason I shouldn't get a "IdaSailor Rudder" ?

 

[VT Fitz]

A hole in the water into which one pours money...

Any reason I shouldn't get a "IdaSailor Rudder" ?

Money is the only object! If that's not a problem, get one! The nitrogen gas piston pivot system that is part of it looks like it would make your problem melt away. I most definitely covet that upgrade at some future point!

For what it's worth, I got some snapshots today of my rudder rig. As you can see, I have a triply redundant system to keep the tiller/rudder from swaying & banging: the shackle on the trailing edge of the rudder tied off to the rail; the PVC tiller post; and a "Cajun tiller tamer" tied off to the stern cleats. No doubt it's over the top, but I'm a believer in safety over sorrow.

Actually, I am feeling rather smug & vindicated on that score at the moment because I left her in LI Sound on Saturday not realizing the severity of the low pressure system which hit in the last 36 hours and will continue for another 36 hours. I've just arrived back from a 6-hour roundtrip drive to move her into harbor from the mooring on which I left her in front of the family cottage before returning to VT Sat night. The 2'-4' seas yesterday had some wondering if Grasshopper's mast was going to touch water. Several boats got swamped last night. I was a wreck, looking at the NOAA data for New Haven & Bridgeport every 20 minutes -- and the data was fairly gruesome, especially from 200 miles away! Anyway, the tiller/rudder withstood all the forces of 45 degree+ rolls for a full day+ with absolutely no consequences.

Redundant systems are great mind soothers... so is getting the boat to harbor! I'd hate to lose all the money I've poured into this particular hole in the water.

 

[sesmith]

Here's the quick fix for the folks with the 23.5's, at least. Release the rudder 'til it's floating. Lash the tiller over to the starboard side. Drop the ladder and lift the rudder out of the water with one hand as you stand on the top step for leverage and hold onto the rail with the other hand. Piece of cake. My wife came up with that one while I walked up to get the truck and trailer one time. I did a double take, and wondered why the heck we fought with that thing for so many years before she took over and came up with the solution to my short sightedness

 

[Chiriqui]

Thanks for the photos Fitz. I've been reluctant to consider drilling a hole until I saw your photo. I've order a IdSailer rudder. He's consolidating production ( I imagine it's the economic downturn) and won't have it out the door for a couple of weeks. I've read some posts about loosing the rudder for one reason or another. It been suggested that any off shore sailing a fellow should consider having a backup rudder on board. I opted to get one. IdaSailer recommended installing a bracket right beside the existing hitch for the rudder. That way in an emergency I can just drop in the spare without having to waste time removing the damaged rudder.

I note that the boat mfg built up the stern fiberglass where the mounts are for the rudder. If I bolt mounts to the side the stern doesn't have this same build up.

My thought is to replace the engine mount with a similar wood plank that extends 5" and attach the spare rudder mounts to this extension. The railing will obstruct the movement of the till from this position, but I could just remove the railing I suppose to over come this. The other thing is the angle on the motor mount plank is so that it will jut out a bit from the stern where I would mount the spare rudder. I thought I could make sure the plank was thicker in the 5" extension area so that it's flush with the stern. I'm open for comments

 

[VT Fitz]

Drilling holes

Chiriqui, the hole and shackle were already there from the PO. I'm not sure I would have done it myself. No doubt, it subtracts 0.00001 kts of boatspeed due to the extra drag!

For the record, I would NOT do it to a new IdaSailor rudder. That would seem like mutilation! Plus, the design makes raising the rudder so easy you wouldn't need it.

Let's see, new stern rail with seats, $600+. Cockpit cooler, about $100. Significant labor too on both of those... Cockpit cushions, $400 or more (checking out working with bad_com_pany's friend)... Wonder if the Admiral would go for another $700 for an IdaSailor rudder...? :naughty:

 

[VT Fitz]

Offshore in a 23.5?

... It been suggested that any off shore sailing a fellow should consider having a backup rudder on board. I opted to get one. IdaSailer recommended installing a bracket right beside the existing hitch for the rudder. That way in an emergency I can just drop in the spare without having to waste time removing the damaged rudder...

Chiriqui, while I'm a great believer in redundant safety systems, I think a spare rudder is a little overkill on a 23.5. Speaking from our experience, we have little enough room down below as it is. A big rudder lying around somewhere is the last thing we need.

All the additional hardware you are contemplating, plus extension of the outboard bracket, seems like a lot of work for our little boat, and -- worse yet -- it would clutter up the look of that lovely sugar-scoop transom. If you want to carry that large, heavy original rudder down below for that 1 in 10,000 chance you'll lose or damage your rudder (I presume you are using your original rudder for the backup?), that's one thing, but I don't think I'd take on the alteration to your transom you are contemplating. Plus, if the emergency arises, you are probably already in fairly rough conditions. It would be a beast to wrestle the original rudder into place in rough seas. Or do you have a lighter weight backup? I think this system needs more contemplation before doing anything.

More fundamentally, I suggest a water-ballasted, 24' sailboat really isn't the best choice for offshore sailing. In Grasshopper, we don't enjoy 20+ kt winds or seas over 3', which would easily be found offshore. We cruise happily in the more protected grounds of LI Sound or Lake Champlain, where such conditions are fairly rare & it's easier to run for shore if they do. I guess you could have some marvelous passages sailing offshore in Panama, but I think I'd find cruising grounds in bays closer to shore or stay within 5-10 NM or so of shore.

My 2 cents.

 

[Chiriqui]

Fiz. I agree. I'm not planing on venturing far from shore. Plans are to skirt the shore. Where I sailing now there are plenty of off shore islands to explore. Seas this time of year are exceptionally calm. Frankly too calm. Late Dec through Feb and into March it might be too windy for my H26. That remains to be seen. Only day sailing!. I use to sail on the Hudson when I was kid. Shattemuc Yacht Club, did you ever hear of it? My dad had a 6 Meter and I remember one year us sailing/motoring around through Hells Gate and into Long Island for a series of races. Thanks for the comments

 

[VT Fitz]

Hells Gate

I use to sail on the Hudson when I was kid. Shattemuc Yacht Club, did you ever hear of it? My dad had a 6 Meter and I remember one year us sailing/motoring around through Hells Gate and into Long Island for a series of races...

Haven't sailed the Hudson, so don't know the club.

A few weeks back, we had planned to sail to Flushing Bay to tie up at the Worlds Fair Marina and watch a game at CitiField, but the winds were against us, so we curtailed the trip. Wouldn't have had to go through Hell's Gate, but would have had to plan the passage from LI Sound under the Throgs Neck & Whitestone Bridges carefully to go with the tide.